North African dagger....please can anyone help with script translation

katana · 13th July 2006, 03:13 PM

Hi everyone,
picked this up, the hilt seems to be bone with horn pommel and guard. The blade is 'flyssa' shaped, tempered steel with parallel ground fullers, overall length is 37.5 cms, blade is 26.5 cms.
I believe this is North African, the inscription on the blade will surely provide clues...only problem is I dont recognise the script and cannot translate it. The cresent moon with star motif is also on the other of the blade but the script is on one side only. There's no scabbard.

So please.... any ideas, comments etc welcome ...thankyou

Lew · 13th July 2006, 03:51 PM

Katana

You hit the nail on the head it is some form of nimcha or shula though and not a flyssa. It's North African or Morroccan the blade reminds me of a shulas I have seen.

Lew

Raja Muda · 14th July 2006, 10:19 AM

Hi

The words are in Arabic. I'm guessing that the first is 'silah' which means weapon, and the last 'lil aduw' which means for the enemy?
I can't read the middle word. For further help, I guess you need the good offices of M.Carter or S Al Anizi. BTW, the inscription is the wrong side up

katana · 14th July 2006, 11:00 AM

Thankyou, Raja,
Now you can see my difficulty..... I can't even get the script the right way round

Uploaded another picture... this time the right way up!

Thanks Lew, the shulas I have seen have differing hilts to this example. Do you think it may have been re-hilted 'Nimcha' style?

katana · 16th July 2006, 12:43 PM

BUMP.....sorry, don't usually do this ....but my Arabic is about as good as my cooking......and If I cooked ....we would all starve...

So please, could someone help with the inscription....... thankyou

Justin · 16th July 2006, 05:11 PM

I believe that these are from Turkey although no one seems to have a name or any other specific info on them.Most seem to be fairly crude but I have seen a few on ebay that seemed to have decent blades,the blade on mine is flat and not really even sharpened.

katana · 20th July 2006, 05:54 PM

Hi Justin
mine also has a thin blade....but it is tempered and has a 'slight' edge. Thanks for your informative comments.

fernando · 24th July 2006, 06:39 PM

Hi Katana
I had a visiting Morocan coleague, and asked her for some translations i had in hand ... old weapons stuff. It ocurred to ask about the inscription in this piece of yours. She made a direct interpretation in Portuguese ... hard to revert in english.
Surely the middle terms relates to " keeping out" or "moving out". She went this far:
( With? ) Weapons ( They?) drive away ( the?) enemy
I hope it helps

katana · 24th July 2006, 07:23 PM

Thankyou very much for your help Fernando, please thank your colleague for me.......

13th July 2006, 03:13 PM	#1
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	North African dagger....please can anyone help with script translation Hi everyone, picked this up, the hilt seems to be bone with horn pommel and guard. The blade is 'flyssa' shaped, tempered steel with parallel ground fullers, overall length is 37.5 cms, blade is 26.5 cms. I believe this is North African, the inscription on the blade will surely provide clues...only problem is I dont recognise the script and cannot translate it. The cresent moon with star motif is also on the other of the blade but the script is on one side only. There's no scabbard. So please.... any ideas, comments etc welcome ...thankyou Attached Images

14th July 2006, 10:19 AM	#3
Raja Muda Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia Posts: 100	Attempted Reading Hi The words are in Arabic. I'm guessing that the first is 'silah' which means weapon, and the last 'lil aduw' which means for the enemy? I can't read the middle word. For further help, I guess you need the good offices of M.Carter or S Al Anizi. BTW, the inscription is the wrong side up

14th July 2006, 11:00 AM	#4
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Thankyou, Raja, Now you can see my difficulty..... I can't even get the script the right way round Uploaded another picture... this time the right way up! Thanks Lew, the shulas I have seen have differing hilts to this example. Do you think it may have been re-hilted 'Nimcha' style? Attached Images Last edited by katana; 14th July 2006 at 11:10 AM.

24th July 2006, 06:39 PM	#8
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,636	middle word Hi Katana I had a visiting Morocan coleague, and asked her for some translations i had in hand ... old weapons stuff. It ocurred to ask about the inscription in this piece of yours. She made a direct interpretation in Portuguese ... hard to revert in english. Surely the middle terms relates to " keeping out" or "moving out". She went this far: ( With? ) Weapons ( They?) drive away ( the?) enemy I hope it helps

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13th July 2006, 03:51 PM	#2
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Katana You hit the nail on the head it is some form of nimcha or shula though and not a flyssa. It's North African or Morroccan the blade reminds me of a shulas I have seen. Lew

16th July 2006, 12:43 PM	#5
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	BUMP.....sorry, don't usually do this ....but my Arabic is about as good as my cooking......and If I cooked ....we would all starve... So please, could someone help with the inscription....... thankyou

16th July 2006, 05:11 PM	#6
Justin Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 175	I believe that these are from Turkey although no one seems to have a name or any other specific info on them.Most seem to be fairly crude but I have seen a few on ebay that seemed to have decent blades,the blade on mine is flat and not really even sharpened.

20th July 2006, 05:54 PM	#7
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Hi Justin mine also has a thin blade....but it is tempered and has a 'slight' edge. Thanks for your informative comments.

24th July 2006, 07:23 PM	#9
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Thankyou very much for your help Fernando, please thank your colleague for me.......