Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Ethnographic Weapons

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 12th March 2010, 03:34 PM   #1
Lew
(deceased)
 
Lew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: East Coast USA
Posts: 3,191
Default Indian Persian 18thc tulwar khanda sword?

What is this sword?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEWAX:IT
Lew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th March 2010, 03:48 PM   #2
Rick
Vikingsword Staff
 
Rick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,258
Smile

My tired old brain cells tell me that a piece like this has been discussed here .

Just don't ask me to find it .
Rick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th March 2010, 04:09 PM   #3
CourseEight
Member
 
CourseEight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Coral Springs, FL
Posts: 222
Default

Same sword:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=afghan

I vote Afghan, 19th Century. Tirri has very similar brass work on some stirrups, and the overall hilt shape is like one of those Afghan military sabers.
CourseEight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th March 2010, 10:45 AM   #4
HUSAR
Member
 
HUSAR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Poland
Posts: 80
Default

I think this is North Africa will try to post some scans of the swords from collection in Dresden
HUSAR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th March 2010, 11:18 AM   #5
ALEX
Member
 
ALEX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 935
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HUSAR
I think this is North Africa will try to post some scans of the swords from collection in Dresden
I think it's a good quess, Husar. How about Morocco/Berber?
ALEX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th March 2010, 11:19 AM   #6
ariel
Member
 
ariel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 5,503
Default

Well, we seem to be reviving the same old discussion with the same arguments and the same ideas ( Afghanistan, North Africa...).
I read the old threads and got nostalgic. So many interesting people left, so much passion gone, so much drivel of "critical thinking" no longer brightens the day...
Yes, the girls used to be prettier, and the steaks juicier, and the the ice cream cooler..
ariel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th March 2010, 05:49 PM   #7
HUSAR
Member
 
HUSAR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Poland
Posts: 80
Default

promised pictures
Attached Images
  
HUSAR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th March 2010, 04:46 PM   #8
Emanuel
Member
 
Emanuel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 1,242
Default North-Africa / Sahel

Hello,

I vote for hybrid takouba-nimcha design. I don't think it's as old as 19th century

The brass work brings to mind Touareg work - see attached Oriental-Arms pics.
If the blade didn't look so thick I'd have voted for a modified machete.


Emanuel
Attached Images
           
Emanuel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th March 2010, 05:17 PM   #9
Atlantia
Member
 
Atlantia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: The Sharp end
Posts: 2,928
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emanuel
Hello,

I vote for hybrid takouba-nimcha design. I don't think it's as old as 19th century

The brass work brings to mind Touareg work - see attached Oriental-Arms pics.
If the blade didn't look so thick I'd have voted for a modified machete.


Emanuel
I totally agree with North African. The handle looks Moroccan.
I would date it to mid 19th though.
Altogether a rather nice and interesting piece, almost looks like it was made to lop heads or hands off.
Atlantia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd March 2010, 04:22 AM   #10
tom hyle
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Houston, TX, USA
Posts: 1,254
Default indian or Afghan

I'm thinking Indian or Afghan. Note the swelled tip slightly forward SE blade. Note the peacock. I think those are flowers. Also the hilt seems to be a fairly sturdy brass construction; probably filled with pitch rather than a wooden hilt covered with sheet brass as often seen on Berbese work. The finger "stall" may be a Turkish feature; in any event it spread throughout their empire. Blade is most like a khanda. Also note the curve of the knucklebow, which is more Indian than African. Cool sword. Any visible solder joints on the hilt?
tom hyle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd March 2010, 02:14 PM   #11
katana
Member
 
katana's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Kent
Posts: 2,653
Default

I also believe North India/Afghanistan regions. Although the blade form is different, I am reminded of the Kopis.

Seems to have been used often....judging by the wear on the handle. The hilt is perfect for 'chopping' strikes or perhaps as a sacrificial short sword (Ram Dao).

Bearing in mind the Kopis spread across Northern India and Persia, it is not unreasonable to think variants may still exist in some areas. Below are some line drawings from "El Armamento Iberico" Fernando Quesada which helps to tie the hilt to the Kopis/Falcata. But could add weight to the arguement that North Africa could be a possible source !!!

The guard looks typical for Indian weapons as does much of the decoration, which seems to dismiss the African connection. Perhaps this was a commisioned piece made in Africa with design elements from India ???

What ever it is I like it.

Regards David
Attached Images
  
katana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd March 2010, 04:23 PM   #12
Rumpel
Member
 
Rumpel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 63
Default

Here's a left-field suggestion, utterly devoid of evidence: Northern Iraq?

The other thread stated that nimchas were known in Iraq; Kurmanji-speaking Northern Iraq is within the Persian cultural realm; the peacock is sacred to the local Yezidis; and they perform ritual ox sacrifice, in (perhaps) a similar manner to the Gurkhas, who use a kopis-like giant kukri for the purpose...

I can't prove any of this though
Rumpel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th March 2010, 06:56 AM   #13
tom hyle
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Houston, TX, USA
Posts: 1,254
Default

Also, a later thought; the long flat bolster at the base of the blade seems to be a hollow construction (almost ala habiki), whereas Tuareq etc. ones tend to be applied to the flat surfaces of the blade. Very suggestive illustrations there, and also raises the interesting question of how something so useful as the knucklebow has apparently risen, fallen, and returned at least once. Some ancient Latin gladiator weapons also had forms of basket hilts......
tom hyle is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:38 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.