Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Keris Warung Kopi

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 3rd April 2014, 08:27 PM   #1
Bugis Keris
Member
 
Bugis Keris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Indonesia Samarinda Kalimantan Timur Bugis
Posts: 15
Default Pamor Kris (Heritage Kris)

Prestige of the keris world has three (3 ) kinds of sense .

The first concerns the material of manufacture ; for example : meteorite pamor Luwu , nickel prestige , and prestige relatives .
Second sense it comes to form a picture or pattern forms. For example : prestige Ngulit Watermelon , Rice Wutah , Ri Wader , Adeg , and so on .
Third , concerns about manufacturing techniques , for example : mlumah prestige , prestige oblique , and the prestige of torsion .


In addition, the terms of the master's intentions , prestige pattern which could still be subdivided into two groups . If the master makes fame kris no pattern, then the pattern is called pamor prestige tiban . One would assume the shape of the pattern prestige a gift from God .
Conversely , if the master had designed the pla prominence , called prestige colleagues [ rékan is derived from the word réka = engineering ] . Example tiban prestige , for example : Rice wutah , Ngulit Watermelon , Pulo Tirta . Examples of peer prestige , for example : Udan Mas , Ron Genduru , Blarak Sinered , and Untu Walang .

There is another called surrogate or prestige prestige ceblokan , namely pamor following its manufacture , after a keris completed 90 percent . Pamor pattern following the end of the process of making the keris .
Attached Images
 
Bugis Keris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th April 2014, 07:46 AM   #2
David
Keris forum moderator
 
David's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 7,012
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bugis Keris
for example : meteorite pamor Luwu , nickel prestige , and prestige relatives.
I would like to point out that pamor Luwu is not meteorite. It is pamor material that comes from Sulawesi and tends to have a high nickel content. But it is completely terrestrial.
Bugis Keris, are you using some kind of online translator? While i truly appreciate your attempts to communicate with us many of you words are a bit nonsensical in the context presented. The word "prestige" seems to pop up a lot, but i have no idea what you mean by this. I don't know much about online translators, but maybe someone could suggest one that does a better job with the Indonesian language.
David is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th April 2014, 06:08 PM   #3
Bugis Keris
Member
 
Bugis Keris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Indonesia Samarinda Kalimantan Timur Bugis
Posts: 15
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by David
I would like to point out that pamor Luwu is not meteorite. It is pamor material that comes from Sulawesi and tends to have a high nickel content. But it is completely terrestrial.
Bugis Keris, are you using some kind of online translator? While i truly appreciate your attempts to communicate with us many of you words are a bit nonsensical in the context presented. The word "prestige" seems to pop up a lot, but i have no idea what you mean by this. I don't know much about online translators, but maybe someone could suggest one that does a better job with the Indonesian language.

Hello
sorry i have google translate.
but something is wrong.that you must know the old language from history culture of course is so difficult to understanding.

Thank YOu
Bugis Keris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th April 2014, 07:58 PM   #4
Caedo
Member
 
Caedo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 11
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by David
I would like to point out that pamor Luwu is not meteorite. It is pamor material that comes from Sulawesi and tends to have a high nickel content. But it is completely terrestrial.
Bugis Keris, are you using some kind of online translator? While i truly appreciate your attempts to communicate with us many of you words are a bit nonsensical in the context presented. The word "prestige" seems to pop up a lot, but i have no idea what you mean by this. I don't know much about online translators, but maybe someone could suggest one that does a better job with the Indonesian language.
"Prestige" is the online translator rendering of pamor.
Caedo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th April 2014, 08:19 PM   #5
Caedo
Member
 
Caedo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 11
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bugis Keris
Prestige of the keris world has three (3 ) kinds of sense .

The first concerns the material of manufacture ; for example : meteorite pamor Luwu , nickel prestige , and prestige relatives .
Second sense it comes to form a picture or pattern forms. For example : prestige Ngulit Watermelon , Rice Wutah , Ri Wader , Adeg , and so on .
Third , concerns about manufacturing techniques , for example : mlumah prestige , prestige oblique , and the prestige of torsion .


In addition, the terms of the master's intentions , prestige pattern which could still be subdivided into two groups . If the master makes fame kris no pattern, then the pattern is called pamor prestige tiban . One would assume the shape of the pattern prestige a gift from God .
Conversely , if the master had designed the pla prominence , called prestige colleagues [ rékan is derived from the word réka = engineering ] . Example tiban prestige , for example : Rice wutah , Ngulit Watermelon , Pulo Tirta . Examples of peer prestige , for example : Udan Mas , Ron Genduru , Blarak Sinered , and Untu Walang .

There is another called surrogate or prestige prestige ceblokan , namely pamor following its manufacture , after a keris completed 90 percent . Pamor pattern following the end of the process of making the keris .
If I understand him correctly, Bugis Keris is saying the following:

There are three aspects to pamor. The first refers to the materials used to create it (meteoric iron/nickel, terrestrial nickel, and other materials). The second refers to whether the pattern was intentional (pamor rékan) or unintentional (pamor tiban). The third aspect refers to the smithing technique required to create a particular pattern.

He also mentions pamor ceblokan (encrusted pamor) which (I believe) refers to the addition of, say, gold to enhance parts of a blade. This is a term I hadn't heard before, so I learned something.
Caedo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th April 2014, 12:46 AM   #6
David
Keris forum moderator
 
David's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 7,012
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caedo
"Prestige" is the online translator rendering of pamor.
Weird! Thanks Caedo.
David is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th April 2014, 12:56 AM   #7
David
Keris forum moderator
 
David's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 7,012
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caedo
He also mentions pamor ceblokan (encrusted pamor) which (I believe) refers to the addition of, say, gold to enhance parts of a blade
Caedo, i doubt that. Gold enhancements (kinatah) would never be considered "pamor". Lord knows how google translator would convert "kinatah".
Ceblokan pamor (also sometimes called "titipan") is just as he described, pamor material that is added when the keris is 90% finished, hammered on top so to speak. Nothing to do with gold.
David is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th April 2014, 03:18 PM   #8
Caedo
Member
 
Caedo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 11
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by David
Caedo, i doubt that. Gold enhancements (kinatah) would never be considered "pamor". Lord knows how google translator would convert "kinatah".
Ceblokan pamor (also sometimes called "titipan") is just as he described, pamor material that is added when the keris is 90% finished, hammered on top so to speak. Nothing to do with gold.
Ah. Thank you for the clarification. Honestly, my first thought when I read the original post was that pamor ceblokan referred to something like acid etching or other treatments to create the appearance of pamor. I have seen such things done to pedang (sword) and kujang blades, but I didn't/don't know the terminology.

I've never seen ceblokan pamor, I guess. How would one recognize it?
Caedo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th April 2014, 05:24 AM   #9
David
Keris forum moderator
 
David's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 7,012
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caedo
I've never seen ceblokan pamor, I guess. How would one recognize it?
You probably have seen it without realizing it. Perhaps members with examples could post some images for you here.
This thread might be helpful.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=15195
David is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 06:16 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.