Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Ethnographic Weapons

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 13th October 2010, 03:30 PM   #1
erikscollectables
Member
 
erikscollectables's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 318
Default ID help needed on Sumatra sword

I recently got this small sword (blade is 40cm).
It originates from a weapons collection (both European and Ethnographic) that was collected before 1940. I was able to acquire some items.

This short sword I cannot identify positively.

My guess is Sumatra - possibly a Batak Andar Andar with a variation hilt - sukul jering. The handle is horn.

Who knows more - all input welcome!

Regards, Erik
Attached Images
  
erikscollectables is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th October 2010, 07:40 PM   #2
kai
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,213
Default

Hello Erik,

A really intriguing sword!

Quote:
I recently got this small sword (blade is 40cm).
It originates from a weapons collection (both European and Ethnographic) that was collected before 1940. I was able to acquire some items.

My guess is Sumatra - possibly a Batak Andar Andar with a variation hilt - sukul jering. The handle is horn.
I'm fairly sure that this piece is not Batak: the blade doesn't show the narrowing base typical for shorter Batak swords (including the andar andar) and also the hilt doesn't look like a sukul jering variation to me (flared base, carving style, no eyes which ornate sukul jering always? exhibit).

I believe this originates from some Sumatran Muslim group, probably East coast rather than Aceh. The blade has keris-like base features like the pedang type 3 example shown in AvZ and the hilt also seems to be kinda intermediate between a pedang hilt and a hulu iku mie.

The laminated blade seems substantial and genuine - would love to see it etched!

Regards,
Kai
kai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th October 2010, 11:44 PM   #3
Nirghosa
Member
 
Nirghosa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Michigan
Posts: 119
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by erikscollectables
I recently got this small sword (blade is 40cm).
It originates from a weapons collection (both European and Ethnographic) that was collected before 1940. I was able to acquire some items.

This short sword I cannot identify positively.

My guess is Sumatra - possibly a Batak Andar Andar with a variation hilt - sukul jering. The handle is horn.

Who knows more - all input welcome!

Regards, Erik

My guess would be a Kalasan.
Nirghosa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th October 2010, 11:21 PM   #4
Nirghosa
Member
 
Nirghosa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Michigan
Posts: 119
Default

For comparison:
http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=1991

I have some training with this item and my teacher did learn it in Sumatra.
Ours also has the backcut tip/spine and there are movements that capitalize on this design aspect.
Nirghosa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th October 2010, 08:13 AM   #5
erikscollectables
Member
 
erikscollectables's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 318
Default Kalasan?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nirghosa
For comparison:
http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=1991

I have some training with this item and my teacher did learn it in Sumatra.
Ours also has the backcut tip/spine and there are movements that capitalize on this design aspect.
Hi Nirghosa,

I have a few karo kalasans in my collection.
In my opinion this blade is quite different.
It does not have the S shape of the blade.
It does have more a blade similair to that of the andar andar. Slightly broader at the point and double edged.
It does not have the typical characteristics of a Batak blade near the handle though - instead it has a keris like feature that is also sometimes seen on pedangs from Sumatra.

Regards, Erik
erikscollectables is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th October 2010, 10:37 PM   #6
Nirghosa
Member
 
Nirghosa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Michigan
Posts: 119
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by erikscollectables
Hi Nirghosa,

I have a few karo kalasans in my collection.
In my opinion this blade is quite different.
It does not have the S shape of the blade.
It does have more a blade similair to that of the andar andar. Slightly broader at the point and double edged.
It does not have the typical characteristics of a Batak blade near the handle though - instead it has a keris like feature that is also sometimes seen on pedangs from Sumatra.

Regards, Erik
agreed, it is intriguing. I agree, the handle and near the handle are not typical. But at first blush this was the closest thing (to me) I have seen to our Kalasan, and I have been looking for similar ones lately. That is why I say my first guess. Of course, my teacher learned from an elderly gentleman in the jungle, it could have just been his local variant.
Thanks for the insight Erik.
Nirghosa is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:19 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.