European (?) Sidearm ID help please!

Bryan.H · 4th November 2012, 05:04 AM

Greetings all,

I recently purchased this short sword which appears to be a continental sidearm from about the mid 1800's. I'm struggling to find a definitive reference to identify it's country of origin, or place of manufacture, so I'm asking the experts.. (that's you!).

any help is much appreciated!

Cheers,
Bryan.

M ELEY · 4th November 2012, 01:36 PM

No one stepping up to the plate yet? I'll take a guess (no expert here). The style is similar to German hirschfangers of the period, especially in the form of the wood grip with 3 brass 'buttons' for a grip, HOWEVER, this piece resembles more of a utilitarian-type sword, such as a machete. I know Collins & Co made similar (read slightly similar) machetes for the Latin Amer and S Amer markets during the period of this sword, mid-19th. The form of the grips, two wood (?) slats with a flattened tang sandwiched in between, is also very similar in style to Span colonial espadas, perhaps a mimic for the market?

I see some similarities with Danish swords also, to swing things in the other direction. I'm afraid it is easier to say what this sword is not vs what it truly is.
Now, where are those blasted experts-

kronckew · 4th November 2012, 02:15 PM

Suisse (switzerland) sharpshooter's sword. model 1842-75

nice wood gripped short sword, with scabbard & frog it's a rare beasty.

i bid on one w/o the frog on ebay a few years ago & missed it by quite a few hundred bucks.

i have a swiss uncle who still keeps his army straight pull K31 carbine in his cabin. he was the first one who told me the old story (attributed to ww1, ww2 and probably earlier) about (the kaiser, hitler, bismark - take your pick) visiting switzerland prior to an invasion to 'gather information' while meeting with the swiss president to suggest surrender, he supposedly said - we have 500 thousand well armed troops poised to invade switzerland. you only have 250 thousand peasant farmers in a reserve army. what can you do to resist us.

the swiss said "shoot twice and go home".

the german of course went home and cancelled the invasion.

M ELEY · 4th November 2012, 11:26 PM

And the expert steps forward! Great information, Kronckew! I've never actually seen one of these before, but thought I'd wager a guess! It isn't a big surprise to me that it could be Swiss, as many of their weapon forms were Germanic in form (i.e. hirschfanger). Odd that a sharp-shooter unit would have such a large sword, compared with an infantry type. Bryan, sounds like you're found a keeper-
Mark

Bryan.H · 5th November 2012, 02:57 AM

Thank you kronckew ! I had mistakenly thought it may be a Scandinavian huggaren of some sort, as it is well made, and it's solid, simple construction is similar to a Swedish fascine knife I had some time ago.

Cheers for the anecdote! It reminds me of the Desert Storm Iraqi AK-47 rifle for sale, never fired, dropped once!

4th November 2012, 05:04 AM	#1
Bryan.H Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Australia Posts: 51	European (?) Sidearm ID help please! Greetings all, I recently purchased this short sword which appears to be a continental sidearm from about the mid 1800's. I'm struggling to find a definitive reference to identify it's country of origin, or place of manufacture, so I'm asking the experts.. (that's you!). any help is much appreciated! Cheers, Bryan. Attached Images

4th November 2012, 02:15 PM	#3
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,150	Suisse (switzerland) sharpshooter's sword. model 1842-75 nice wood gripped short sword, with scabbard & frog it's a rare beasty. i bid on one w/o the frog on ebay a few years ago & missed it by quite a few hundred bucks. i have a swiss uncle who still keeps his army straight pull K31 carbine in his cabin. he was the first one who told me the old story (attributed to ww1, ww2 and probably earlier) about (the kaiser, hitler, bismark - take your pick) visiting switzerland prior to an invasion to 'gather information' while meeting with the swiss president to suggest surrender, he supposedly said - we have 500 thousand well armed troops poised to invade switzerland. you only have 250 thousand peasant farmers in a reserve army. what can you do to resist us. the swiss said "shoot twice and go home". the german of course went home and cancelled the invasion. Last edited by kronckew; 4th November 2012 at 02:31 PM.

5th November 2012, 02:57 AM	#5
Bryan.H Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Australia Posts: 51	Many thanks! Thank you kronckew ! I had mistakenly thought it may be a Scandinavian huggaren of some sort, as it is well made, and it's solid, simple construction is similar to a Swedish fascine knife I had some time ago. Cheers for the anecdote! It reminds me of the Desert Storm Iraqi AK-47 rifle for sale, never fired, dropped once!

4th November 2012, 01:36 PM	#2
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,066	No one stepping up to the plate yet? I'll take a guess (no expert here). The style is similar to German hirschfangers of the period, especially in the form of the wood grip with 3 brass 'buttons' for a grip, HOWEVER, this piece resembles more of a utilitarian-type sword, such as a machete. I know Collins & Co made similar (read slightly similar) machetes for the Latin Amer and S Amer markets during the period of this sword, mid-19th. The form of the grips, two wood (?) slats with a flattened tang sandwiched in between, is also very similar in style to Span colonial espadas, perhaps a mimic for the market? I see some similarities with Danish swords also, to swing things in the other direction. I'm afraid it is easier to say what this sword is not vs what it truly is. Now, where are those blasted experts-

4th November 2012, 11:26 PM	#4
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,066	And the expert steps forward! Great information, Kronckew! I've never actually seen one of these before, but thought I'd wager a guess! It isn't a big surprise to me that it could be Swiss, as many of their weapon forms were Germanic in form (i.e. hirschfanger). Odd that a sharp-shooter unit would have such a large sword, compared with an infantry type. Bryan, sounds like you're found a keeper- Mark