A Plastic Keris? for comment.

BSMStar · 11th April 2005, 11:31 PM

Well not exactlly a plastic keris, just the clothes or furniture are plastic.

Any ideas on the age of the keris?

BSMStar · 11th April 2005, 11:32 PM

I am thinking about re-etching and staining this keris.

BSMStar · 11th April 2005, 11:38 PM

Close up of the keris (blade)

rahman · 12th April 2005, 04:52 AM

Any way to test if they are plastic, short of shoving a hot needle? I have one hilt that's supposedly horn, feels heavy but seems to melt against a solodering iron. No, I didn't test it... it was accidental. Does horn melt like that?

Andrew · 12th April 2005, 05:37 AM

Rahman, horn will not melt. It will, however burn, and gives off a strong odor of burning hair.

Alam Shah · 12th April 2005, 07:12 AM

BSMStar, etch it please.

It sure will look stunning (i think).
Soaking the blade in lime or pineapple juice for a day should roughly show an outline of the pamor.

Good luck and have fun...

BSMStar · 12th April 2005, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rahman

Any way to test if they are plastic, short of shoving a hot needle? I have one hilt that's supposedly horn, feels heavy but seems to melt against a solodering iron. No, I didn't test it... it was accidental. Does horn melt like that?

Hi rahman,

When you tap it with your finger, it sounds like hitting plastic. It is light in the hand. On close visual examination, you can see the imperfections (hollow bubbles) from casting the higher density plastic (the areas that are brown in color). The "sliver" pendok is plastic (I believe it is styrene like model cars) that is "chrome" plated (like on a model car) and then blacked... the front looks good but they don't do as good of a job on the back (see the picture). There is no metal used in the pendok. The Mendak is the only metal and cheaply made.

I don't think there is any need to test with heat. Andrew is right on... Horn is not that different from fingernails (which are modified hair) with a bony interior, (it doesn't melt, but it will burn with enough heat). It is more dense (heavier) than the material this is made from.

The keris does not fit the sheath quite right (it doesn't feel right)... so pulling and replacing the Keris is a bit loose until it is full inserted. Then it is a proper or "tight" (not loose) fit.

rahman · 12th April 2005, 01:27 PM

Thanks for the info. I'm relieved that while the hulu did show some burn marks, there was no melting. Yes, there was a weird smell but not that of burnt plastic.

If we have hulu made in plastic, it must point to a fairly widespread distribution of fake plastic. These things require fairly sophisticated injection moulding technology, and you'll need to have some level of mass production to make it worthwhile.

I guess we'll have to be on our guard.

nechesh · 12th April 2005, 02:33 PM

Wow, this is kinda scary stuff. Actually, we have seen this composite material used before. I believe we had a thread on a similar piece a while back. This does create all kinds of problems for eBay buyers. This would be hard stuff to catch unless the photos were really good (are they ever?) and Rahman is right to point out that if there is one like this there are no doubt many. Geez, even the pendok is plastic, eh? Makes buying from a reputable dealer even more attractive.

Bill · 12th April 2005, 04:46 PM

scary, to my bad judgement, it looks pretty good. i would also think there must be a lot more of them out there

nechesh · 12th April 2005, 05:43 PM

Not so much bad judgement Bill. This composite stuff DOES look good. I've been buying Asian statues made of this stuff for some time just because they look so good and are so cheap. But i'm sure i don't want my keris dress made out of it. Of course, as we have discussed before, if the item is listed correctly with full disclosure, there is no forgery. This dress is obviously made for the tourist market. My fear is that we will start seeing more of these being sold as horn or other natural materials.Put a mediocre old blade in that dress and it can be even harder to tell. Buyer beware.

BSMStar · 12th April 2005, 06:29 PM

As I have said in another thread, a very dear friend purchased this keris as a gift for me. He only glanced at it and sent it on to me, not realizing the plastic make-up of the dress (the sheath seems a bit short too). I went "out on a limb" (and a true test of friendship I may add) and explained the nature of the dress being plastic to him. I wanted to make sure that he didn't get ripped off. I believe he was a bit embarrassed (he shouldn't be).

So, I am sharing this keris with the Forum… so that all may be aware that what looks good on the Internet may be sometime else when you get it (like we didn't know that). Otherwise, it would have been an awesome Sumatran dress, no?

The keris looks like an older Javanese Keris (late 19c to early 20c), what do you all think?

Rick · 12th April 2005, 06:50 PM

Hi Wayne , I've been poring over my Tammens and I can't seem to find a real match to any of the dapor he shows in his outline drawings . This , of course doesn't mean all that much coming from me .

It could possibly be a simple Solo blade .

Since the dress is Sumatran , possibly the blade is too ( but only possibly) .
I'll continue poring through the pictures now ...........

The thing that's throwing me a curve is exactly that , the downward curve of the pecetan .

11th April 2005, 11:31 PM	#1
BSMStar Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kansas City, MO USA Posts: 312	A Plastic Keris? for comment. Well not exactlly a plastic keris, just the clothes or furniture are plastic. Any ideas on the age of the keris? Attached Images

11th April 2005, 11:38 PM	#3
BSMStar Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kansas City, MO USA Posts: 312	Close up of the keris (blade) Attached Images

12th April 2005, 06:50 PM	#13
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,264	Hi Wayne , I've been poring over my Tammens and I can't seem to find a real match to any of the dapor he shows in his outline drawings . This , of course doesn't mean all that much coming from me . It could possibly be a simple Solo blade . Since the dress is Sumatran , possibly the blade is too ( but only possibly) . I'll continue poring through the pictures now ........... The thing that's throwing me a curve is exactly that , the downward curve of the pecetan . Last edited by Rick; 12th April 2005 at 07:10 PM.

11th April 2005, 11:32 PM	#2
BSMStar Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kansas City, MO USA Posts: 312	I am thinking about re-etching and staining this keris.

12th April 2005, 04:52 AM	#4
rahman Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 84	Any way to test if they are plastic, short of shoving a hot needle? I have one hilt that's supposedly horn, feels heavy but seems to melt against a solodering iron. No, I didn't test it... it was accidental. Does horn melt like that?

12th April 2005, 05:37 AM	#5
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	Rahman, horn will not melt. It will, however burn, and gives off a strong odor of burning hair.

12th April 2005, 07:12 AM	#6
Alam Shah Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,248	BSMStar, etch it please. It sure will look stunning (i think). Soaking the blade in lime or pineapple juice for a day should roughly show an outline of the pamor. Good luck and have fun...

12th April 2005, 01:27 PM	#8
rahman Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 84	Thanks for the info. I'm relieved that while the hulu did show some burn marks, there was no melting. Yes, there was a weird smell but not that of burnt plastic. If we have hulu made in plastic, it must point to a fairly widespread distribution of fake plastic. These things require fairly sophisticated injection moulding technology, and you'll need to have some level of mass production to make it worthwhile. I guess we'll have to be on our guard.

12th April 2005, 02:33 PM	#9
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Wow, this is kinda scary stuff. Actually, we have seen this composite material used before. I believe we had a thread on a similar piece a while back. This does create all kinds of problems for eBay buyers. This would be hard stuff to catch unless the photos were really good (are they ever?) and Rahman is right to point out that if there is one like this there are no doubt many. Geez, even the pendok is plastic, eh? Makes buying from a reputable dealer even more attractive.

12th April 2005, 04:46 PM	#10
Bill Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Chicago area Posts: 327	scary, to my bad judgement, it looks pretty good. i would also think there must be a lot more of them out there

12th April 2005, 05:43 PM	#11
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Not so much bad judgement Bill. This composite stuff DOES look good. I've been buying Asian statues made of this stuff for some time just because they look so good and are so cheap. But i'm sure i don't want my keris dress made out of it. Of course, as we have discussed before, if the item is listed correctly with full disclosure, there is no forgery. This dress is obviously made for the tourist market. My fear is that we will start seeing more of these being sold as horn or other natural materials.Put a mediocre old blade in that dress and it can be even harder to tell. Buyer beware.

12th April 2005, 06:29 PM	#12
BSMStar Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kansas City, MO USA Posts: 312	As I have said in another thread, a very dear friend purchased this keris as a gift for me. He only glanced at it and sent it on to me, not realizing the plastic make-up of the dress (the sheath seems a bit short too). I went "out on a limb" (and a true test of friendship I may add) and explained the nature of the dress being plastic to him. I wanted to make sure that he didn't get ripped off. I believe he was a bit embarrassed (he shouldn't be). So, I am sharing this keris with the Forum… so that all may be aware that what looks good on the Internet may be sometime else when you get it (like we didn't know that). Otherwise, it would have been an awesome Sumatran dress, no? The keris looks like an older Javanese Keris (late 19c to early 20c), what do you all think?