Baker Rifle Sword Bayonets query.

kronckew · 29th January 2018, 01:35 PM

As a fan of the 'Sharpe' series, I've read about Baker rifle sword bayonets.

It appears there are three sources:

A) Original GB Military issue.
B) Later Batch made for Indian Issue Baker rifle service.
C) A small batch custom made for the UK 95th Rifles re-enactment group.

I seem to have acquired either a B) or C). Any guidance on telling them apart, i gather the B&C's were unmarked.

Any guidance on differentiating them will be appreciated, i'm fairly sure it's NOT an original broad arrow marked one...bit too clean for an A).

Seems to be little online info & few pics, none i could find here on the forum, so these ( and hopefully other poster's) will serve for future reference.

fernando · 29th January 2018, 06:28 PM

Look HERE

Norman McCormick · 29th January 2018, 07:07 PM

Hi Wayne,
You appear to have the 2nd pattern from 1801, whether it is an original or not I have no idea. This site seems to have pictures of all the variants http://www.95th-rifles.co.uk/equipment/sword-bayonet/

My Regards,
Norman.

Fernando K · 29th January 2018, 07:18 PM

Hello

The saber-bayonet was also produced by private gunsmiths, for the volunteers. Here some variants

Affectionately. Fernando K

thinreadline · 30th January 2018, 09:16 AM

Do you have any pictures of markings on your Baker bayonet ? The back edge of the blade near the ricasso is a typical place for makers mark or on the brass languets for unit marks. Can you also do some pics of the stitching of the scabbard seam scabbard . Thanks.

kronckew · 31st January 2018, 03:46 PM

Picked it up from vendor today. pics as below. Can't find any markings blade has a lot of black oxide staining, no pitting. edge like a butter knife, but very sharp point. brass is oxidised a bit, some verdegris under the languet. Stitching of scabbard is two lines of dirty white thread 1/4in. stitches that cross under the central seam, on the edge side of the scabbard. Blade is 23 in. long, 3 1/2 in. false edge, 5/16 thick at ricasso, 1/4 in. at the false edge. 1 1/8 in. wide at ricasso, a hair over 1 in. at the end of the false edge. grip is 4.5 in., inc. the guard. 4 longitudinal grooves, 26 circumfrential ones. Blade clicks into place in scabbard over the last 1/2 in. or so. Steel spring and button assembly in place, retained by a slotted dome headed screw.

thinreadline · 1st February 2018, 01:03 AM

this almost certainly is an Indian made Baker ... some authorities describe them as 'Indian State Forces' Bakers. In the 1980s World Wide Arms imported a lot of them from India , there is some debate as to whether they had gained access to a State Armoury or were having them made in India . However later on they began to sell ones with British manufacturers names on them , this batch was definitely made to order . The presence of a scabbard is usually a good indicator of relatively recent manufacture as Baker scabbards are far far rarer than the bayonets themselves.

29th January 2018, 01:35 PM	#1
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,150	Baker Rifle Sword Bayonets query. As a fan of the 'Sharpe' series, I've read about Baker rifle sword bayonets. It appears there are three sources: A) Original GB Military issue. B) Later Batch made for Indian Issue Baker rifle service. C) A small batch custom made for the UK 95th Rifles re-enactment group. I seem to have acquired either a B) or C). Any guidance on telling them apart, i gather the B&C's were unmarked. Any guidance on differentiating them will be appreciated, i'm fairly sure it's NOT an original broad arrow marked one...bit too clean for an A). Seems to be little online info & few pics, none i could find here on the forum, so these ( and hopefully other poster's) will serve for future reference. Attached Images

29th January 2018, 07:18 PM	#4
Fernando K Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 663	Hello The saber-bayonet was also produced by private gunsmiths, for the volunteers. Here some variants Affectionately. Fernando K Attached Images

31st January 2018, 03:46 PM	#6
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,150	Picked it up from vendor today. pics as below. Can't find any markings blade has a lot of black oxide staining, no pitting. edge like a butter knife, but very sharp point. brass is oxidised a bit, some verdegris under the languet. Stitching of scabbard is two lines of dirty white thread 1/4in. stitches that cross under the central seam, on the edge side of the scabbard. Blade is 23 in. long, 3 1/2 in. false edge, 5/16 thick at ricasso, 1/4 in. at the false edge. 1 1/8 in. wide at ricasso, a hair over 1 in. at the end of the false edge. grip is 4.5 in., inc. the guard. 4 longitudinal grooves, 26 circumfrential ones. Blade clicks into place in scabbard over the last 1/2 in. or so. Steel spring and button assembly in place, retained by a slotted dome headed screw. Attached Images

29th January 2018, 06:28 PM	#2
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,638	Look HERE

29th January 2018, 07:07 PM	#3
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,575	Hi Wayne, You appear to have the 2nd pattern from 1801, whether it is an original or not I have no idea. This site seems to have pictures of all the variants http://www.95th-rifles.co.uk/equipment/sword-bayonet/ My Regards, Norman.

30th January 2018, 09:16 AM	#5
thinreadline Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Wirral Posts: 1,204	Do you have any pictures of markings on your Baker bayonet ? The back edge of the blade near the ricasso is a typical place for makers mark or on the brass languets for unit marks. Can you also do some pics of the stitching of the scabbard seam scabbard . Thanks.

1st February 2018, 01:03 AM	#7
thinreadline Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Wirral Posts: 1,204	this almost certainly is an Indian made Baker ... some authorities describe them as 'Indian State Forces' Bakers. In the 1980s World Wide Arms imported a lot of them from India , there is some debate as to whether they had gained access to a State Armoury or were having them made in India . However later on they began to sell ones with British manufacturers names on them , this batch was definitely made to order . The presence of a scabbard is usually a good indicator of relatively recent manufacture as Baker scabbards are far far rarer than the bayonets themselves.