A Bali (or Lombok) Keris for comment

Rafngard · 15th December 2015, 01:50 AM

Hello all,

I recently acquired this keris from epray for a reasonable price, and wanted to see what the experts here thought. Attached photos are from the seller, as I've been waiting for a good day to take photos, but December in Minnesota has not been cooperating.

I *think* the parmor is uler lulut, the Ukiran is in the Loncengan style, and is paired with a Kajongan wrongko. The gandik is rather long to my eye.

The seller said it was 19th century, but I trust the epray sellers about as far as I can throw them (less far actually, as I practice silat

), so I was hoping the experts here might offer an opinion. It looks like it might have some age to my eye, but I'm a rank amateur on the subject. The seller also thought the gems in the uwer might be rubies; my earlier comments on trust and throwing are relevant here as well.

As I said above, the pics are from the seller, and some rust is visible in these pics. It has been taken care of, I also cleaned up the uwer a bit. I think the Keris is a lot happier now.

As I said, I'm a rank amateur, so forgive me if I misapply any of the terminology above. All comments are welcome, and I'm eager to learn.

Thanks,
Leif

A. G. Maisey · 15th December 2015, 02:15 AM

Yes, an old blade and the dress also has some age.

The stones in the wewer are probably glass, but they might be resin, definitely not natural stones. This should not be taken as a defect, with Balinese keris its all about appearance, if it looks OK, it is OK.

David · 15th December 2015, 02:26 AM

That's a nice keris. I'd certainly give it a place in my collection. In Jawa this would be a kebo dhapur. I am not certain that it has the same significance in Bali, but kebo dhapurs seem to be connected to agriculture in Jawa from what i understand. I'd say Lombok is a good bet. Certainly looks 19th century to me.

Jean · 15th December 2015, 08:47 AM

I noticed this piece but wonder whether the blade could be javanese because of the type of dapur (uncommon in Bali & Lombok), the ganja with pamor, and the absence of greneng.
Regards

A. G. Maisey · 15th December 2015, 10:59 AM

Yes, the dhapur is not common outside Jawa, however, I cannot recognise a Javanese interpretation of this dhapur in this blade:- look at the way the kembang kacang sinks into the body of the blade and the end of the gadhik slopes down. It actually looks as if the maker was trying to create this dhapur but was not quite sure how to go about it.

However, just for the sake of argument, lets say that it is Javanese, but as we all know, this is not enough. If it is Javanese we should be able to classify it. Speaking only for myself, I am unable to do this.

Jean · 16th December 2015, 08:48 AM

Yes Alan, the kembang kacang should protrude from the gandik instead of being carved from it, and I wonder whether it is original. I won't attempt to classify this kris as well and notice that there was possibly greneng on the ganja originally but it disappeared because of corrosion and wear.
Regards

Jean · 19th December 2015, 05:51 PM

I found by chance a very similar blade to this one (with also 9 shallow waves and a similar pamor pattern) shown on page 60 of the reference book "Keris Bali Bersejarah" so it may be a balinese blade after all.

Regards

Rafngard · 19th December 2015, 07:30 PM

Firstly, thank you all very much for your opinions. I learn every time I post something here.

Secondly, I don't think kembang kacang is a later addition. The line of the blade flows into it too well.

Thanks,
Leif

Jean · 20th December 2015, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rafngard

Secondly, I don't think kembang kacang is a later addition. The line of the blade flows into it too well.

Thanks,
Leif

You are right, the kembang kacang is just worn-out.
Regards

15th December 2015, 01:50 AM	#1
Rafngard Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Minneapolis,MN Posts: 324	A Bali (or Lombok) Keris for comment Hello all, I recently acquired this keris from epray for a reasonable price, and wanted to see what the experts here thought. Attached photos are from the seller, as I've been waiting for a good day to take photos, but December in Minnesota has not been cooperating. I think the parmor is uler lulut, the Ukiran is in the Loncengan style, and is paired with a Kajongan wrongko. The gandik is rather long to my eye. The seller said it was 19th century, but I trust the epray sellers about as far as I can throw them (less far actually, as I practice silat ), so I was hoping the experts here might offer an opinion. It looks like it might have some age to my eye, but I'm a rank amateur on the subject. The seller also thought the gems in the uwer might be rubies; my earlier comments on trust and throwing are relevant here as well. As I said above, the pics are from the seller, and some rust is visible in these pics. It has been taken care of, I also cleaned up the uwer a bit. I think the Keris is a lot happier now. As I said, I'm a rank amateur, so forgive me if I misapply any of the terminology above. All comments are welcome, and I'm eager to learn. Thanks, Leif Attached Images

16th December 2015, 08:48 AM	#6
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Yes Alan, the kembang kacang should protrude from the gandik instead of being carved from it, and I wonder whether it is original. I won't attempt to classify this kris as well and notice that there was possibly greneng on the ganja originally but it disappeared because of corrosion and wear. Regards Last edited by Jean; 16th December 2015 at 09:01 AM.

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15th December 2015, 02:15 AM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,697	Yes, an old blade and the dress also has some age. The stones in the wewer are probably glass, but they might be resin, definitely not natural stones. This should not be taken as a defect, with Balinese keris its all about appearance, if it looks OK, it is OK.

15th December 2015, 02:26 AM	#3
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,023	That's a nice keris. I'd certainly give it a place in my collection. In Jawa this would be a kebo dhapur. I am not certain that it has the same significance in Bali, but kebo dhapurs seem to be connected to agriculture in Jawa from what i understand. I'd say Lombok is a good bet. Certainly looks 19th century to me.

15th December 2015, 08:47 AM	#4
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	I noticed this piece but wonder whether the blade could be javanese because of the type of dapur (uncommon in Bali & Lombok), the ganja with pamor, and the absence of greneng. Regards

15th December 2015, 10:59 AM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,697	Yes, the dhapur is not common outside Jawa, however, I cannot recognise a Javanese interpretation of this dhapur in this blade:- look at the way the kembang kacang sinks into the body of the blade and the end of the gadhik slopes down. It actually looks as if the maker was trying to create this dhapur but was not quite sure how to go about it. However, just for the sake of argument, lets say that it is Javanese, but as we all know, this is not enough. If it is Javanese we should be able to classify it. Speaking only for myself, I am unable to do this.

19th December 2015, 05:51 PM	#7
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	I found by chance a very similar blade to this one (with also 9 shallow waves and a similar pamor pattern) shown on page 60 of the reference book "Keris Bali Bersejarah" so it may be a balinese blade after all. Regards

19th December 2015, 07:30 PM	#8
Rafngard Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Minneapolis,MN Posts: 324	Firstly, thank you all very much for your opinions. I learn every time I post something here. Secondly, I don't think kembang kacang is a later addition. The line of the blade flows into it too well. Thanks, Leif