2 new acquisitions for ID please

Kmaddock · 1st March 2019, 09:12 PM

Hi
Totally outside my collecting area
Just picked these two up this afternoon
Would someone kindly give me an identification so I can do a search as to what they are
I am thing a Panang from Indonesia, as the shorter one and the wavey bladed one a Philippine kris. Blade lengths 45 and 60 cm respectively
It is pouring rain so no good pictures but any direction to more specifically do a search would be appreciated.
Also to help with ID is there specific area of the blades or handles to take images of, the panang as I am calling it is almost certainly rhino horn
Thanks

Ken

kai · 2nd March 2019, 12:23 AM

Hello Ken,

Quote:

I am thing a Panang from Indonesia, as the shorter one and the wavey bladed one a Philippine kris. Blade lengths 45 and 60 cm respectively

Also to help with ID is there specific area of the blades or handles to take images of, the panang as I am calling it is almost certainly rhino horn

Much more likely to be waterbuffalo horn (old pieces can look fibrous/translucent: none of these features is of any significance though - any smooth cross section visible?). Very nice carving, anyway!

This is a Sunda sword from western Java.

The other seems to be a kalis from Sulu. Please post a close-up of the base of the blade (make sure to take the pic from an exactly vertical position).

Regards,
Kai

Athanase · 3rd March 2019, 12:14 AM

I love your pedang hilt (west Java). <3

Kmaddock · 3rd March 2019, 08:43 PM

Hi Kai
It has been terrible weather all day
Here are some additional pictures of the base of the blade on the Kalis
I had to use overhead light rather than outside light
Would you have any idea on age, and more specifics on where it is from
it is a lovely blade, I cleaned it up. I hate to take platina off old blades but the previous owner did a terrible sand papering and I had to get some 2000 and 3000 grade paper to it to remove the terrible scratches. I am happy how it came out now.
Kai think you are correct on the rhino horn being buffalo it is great carving though.
I will post more pictures of the handle later on for you Athanase

Kmaddock · 3rd March 2019, 09:06 PM

Athanase,
Here are more pictures of the hilt, the dragon is missing an eye and handle has some cracking but the carving is v v good as you can see.
The blade and scabbard are nice too with silver work on the scabbard and some nice laminations on blade, again I cleaned th3 blade and got all the scratches out.
Any more information or comments gratefully accepted.
Regards
Ken

kai · 3rd March 2019, 10:55 PM

Hello Ken,

Yes, a really very nice Sunda hilt!

BTW, the crack at the base of the hilt is usually from the horn shrinking due to dry air, especially during winter (from heating). Try to keep humidity and temperature changes to a minimum!

The width of the crack makes me think that the tang probably got rusted quite a bit which often contributes to the cracking. It may be preferable to remove the rust for long-term preservation. However, the main focus needs to be on not damaging the hilt any further - let me know whenever you plan to restore this piece, please.

Regards,
Kai

kai · 3rd March 2019, 11:04 PM

Hello Ken,

We'll need better (and larger) close-ups of the Moro kris, I'm afraid.

With the current pics, I still tend towards Sulu. I also believe to see a separate gangya but sometimes this is really difficult to establish without personally examining the base of the blade under magnification...

If my guesswork is not too far off the mark, this example may originate around the turn of the 20th century. Quite certainly an antique piece with nice scroll work at the base of the blade!

Regards,
Kai

satsujinken · 5th April 2019, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kmaddock

Athanase,
Here are more pictures of the hilt, the dragon is missing an eye and handle has some cracking but the carving is v v good as you can see.
The blade and scabbard are nice too with silver work on the scabbard and some nice laminations on blade, again I cleaned th3 blade and got all the scratches out.
Any more information or comments gratefully accepted.
Regards
Ken

Very nice pedang sunda (Sundanese sword), I take it as Situmang themed pariaman styled handle made from carved water buffalo horn ?

cracked handle are common even here. so some makers added metal rings to reinforce the lower part of the handle

1st March 2019, 09:12 PM	#1
Kmaddock Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Ireland Posts: 532	2 new acquisitions for ID please Hi Totally outside my collecting area Just picked these two up this afternoon Would someone kindly give me an identification so I can do a search as to what they are I am thing a Panang from Indonesia, as the shorter one and the wavey bladed one a Philippine kris. Blade lengths 45 and 60 cm respectively It is pouring rain so no good pictures but any direction to more specifically do a search would be appreciated. Also to help with ID is there specific area of the blades or handles to take images of, the panang as I am calling it is almost certainly rhino horn Thanks Ken Attached Images

3rd March 2019, 08:43 PM	#4
Kmaddock Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Ireland Posts: 532	Hi Kai It has been terrible weather all day Here are some additional pictures of the base of the blade on the Kalis I had to use overhead light rather than outside light Would you have any idea on age, and more specifics on where it is from it is a lovely blade, I cleaned it up. I hate to take platina off old blades but the previous owner did a terrible sand papering and I had to get some 2000 and 3000 grade paper to it to remove the terrible scratches. I am happy how it came out now. Kai think you are correct on the rhino horn being buffalo it is great carving though. I will post more pictures of the handle later on for you Athanase Attached Images

3rd March 2019, 09:06 PM	#5
Kmaddock Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Ireland Posts: 532	Athanase, Here are more pictures of the hilt, the dragon is missing an eye and handle has some cracking but the carving is v v good as you can see. The blade and scabbard are nice too with silver work on the scabbard and some nice laminations on blade, again I cleaned th3 blade and got all the scratches out. Any more information or comments gratefully accepted. Regards Ken Attached Images

3rd March 2019, 11:04 PM	#7
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,215	Hello Ken, We'll need better (and larger) close-ups of the Moro kris, I'm afraid. With the current pics, I still tend towards Sulu. I also believe to see a separate gangya but sometimes this is really difficult to establish without personally examining the base of the blade under magnification... If my guesswork is not too far off the mark, this example may originate around the turn of the 20th century. Quite certainly an antique piece with nice scroll work at the base of the blade! Regards, Kai Last edited by kai; 3rd March 2019 at 11:20 PM.

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3rd March 2019, 12:14 AM	#3
Athanase Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Paris (France) Posts: 403	I love your pedang hilt (west Java). <3

3rd March 2019, 10:55 PM	#6
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,215	Hello Ken, Yes, a really very nice Sunda hilt! BTW, the crack at the base of the hilt is usually from the horn shrinking due to dry air, especially during winter (from heating). Try to keep humidity and temperature changes to a minimum! The width of the crack makes me think that the tang probably got rusted quite a bit which often contributes to the cracking. It may be preferable to remove the rust for long-term preservation. However, the main focus needs to be on not damaging the hilt any further - let me know whenever you plan to restore this piece, please. Regards, Kai