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Old 8th July 2021, 04:35 PM   #1
Indio_Ira
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Default Pattern Welding Kampilan and Kris

Hello all,

Sharing with you my straight kris and kampilan.

Kris pattern welding
Hilt = 4 7/8in
Blade = 20 in

Kampilan with pattern welding as well
Entire length - 37 in
Hilt - 9in
Guard - 6in
Blade - 27 1/2in
Thickness 1/4

I'd like to know their provenance, I was told the Kampilan is from Maguindanao.

Thanks!
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Old 9th July 2021, 12:25 AM   #2
David
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Nice blades. But my question would be is this "pattern welding" or are these "laminated" blades? I realize the techniques are related, but my understanding is that pattern welding is a technique which grew out of the process of "laminated" or "piled steel" forging. This aspect of blade collection is not my expertise, so please feel free to correct me if i have this wrong. It could be just me falling for the naming of the things and expecting to see a more defined pattern in pattern welding.
This is what i would more expect to see in a pattern welded Moro blade as seen in this barung.
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Old 9th July 2021, 01:56 AM   #3
Battara
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The kris is Maguindanao in origin and is missing the top silver band underneath the pommel.

I also think the kampilan could also be Maguindanao based on the okir oon topn the pommel. It is obviously missing the hair on top and this indicates a possible ceremonial piece. Also the holes at the end of the kampilan blade may have been filled with brass or even silver, being talismanic.
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Old 9th July 2021, 10:26 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Battara View Post
The kris is Maguindanao in origin and is missing the top silver band underneath the pommel.

I also think the kampilan could also be Maguindanao based on the okir oon topn the pommel. It is obviously missing the hair on top and this indicates a possible ceremonial piece. Also the holes at the end of the kampilan blade may have been filled with brass or even silver, being talismanic.
Thank you for your insight on my blades.

Is it always the case when the hair is missing that it is a ceremonial piece?
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Old 9th July 2021, 10:23 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David View Post
Nice blades. But my question would be is this "pattern welding" or are these "laminated" blades? I realize the techniques are related, but my understanding is that pattern welding is a technique which grew out of the process of "laminated" or "piled steel" forging. This aspect of blade collection is not my expertise, so please feel free to correct me if i have this wrong. It could be just me falling for the naming of the things and expecting to see a more defined pattern in pattern welding.
This is what i would more expect to see in a pattern welded Moro blade as seen in this barung.
It could be that you are right? I wasn't aware that there's a difference...I'm pretty new in collecting Moro blades so my knowledge is very novice.
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Old 9th July 2021, 03:53 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Indio_Ira View Post
It could be that you are right? I wasn't aware that there's a difference...I'm pretty new in collecting Moro blades so my knowledge is very novice.
Well, i'm not sure i am correct either. LOL!
But i think it might be a case where all pattern welded blades are laminated blades, but not all laminated blades are pattern welded.
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Old 9th July 2021, 10:36 PM   #7
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Just a query: would it be correct to assume that the kris blade is laminated thru and thru and the dark edges are the result of differential tempering?
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Old 10th July 2021, 01:29 AM   #8
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Hello Ariel,

Quote:
Just a query: would it be correct to assume that the kris blade is laminated thru and thru and the dark edges are the result of differential tempering?
No, most kris blades are of sandwich construction with a central layer of hardened steel (dark after staining) and laminated mild steel as outer layers (lighter areas).

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Kai
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Old 10th July 2021, 01:25 AM   #9
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Quote:
all pattern welded blades are laminated blades, but not all laminated blades are pattern welded.
Well, there are also pattern welded wootz blades (which are technically not laminated...) - however, more often than not, the terminology often gets pretty loosely applied, anyway.

In Indonesia, there also is the concept of planned and unplanned pamor: Complex, controlled pattern welding would usually be referred to as planned while more basic, "random" laminations are usually considered as unplanned. IMHO this is also somewhat off since for tight "unplanned" laminations you also need to have a clear intention, know how to achieve that and what you're doing, as well as having extensive control during your working processes. Moreover, there also seems to be a tendency to refer to some pamor motifs as unplanned since their "spontaneous" appearance is believed to enhance their mystic power. In many cases, I'm more inclined to believe that the blade smith did lend more than a mere helping hand...

Regards,
Kai
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