Katipunan dagger just ended on Ebay. Brass blade?

Ferguson · 14th December 2007, 02:35 AM

This beautiful piece just ended on Ebay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWA:IT&ih=002

Hopefully the new owner will post pictures when received.

What I don't understand is the brass blade? Being a new collector I haven't run into this before. What is the significance of the blade being brass or bronze?

Thanks, and congrats to the new owner.

Steve Ferguson

Jazz · 16th December 2007, 08:47 PM

It is indeed rare to find weapons that could be positively attributed to the Katipunan movement. Furthermore, European daggers are often mislabeled as Katipunan relic. Just because it is similar in appearance, it's not necessarily a Katipunan sword or dagger. Instead of guessing, one should look for definite Katipunan marks or symbols before labeling such weapon as "Katipunan".
Whoever won that bid is indeed lucky. We just hope the winner does post some close ups since we rarely see something of this importance/magnitude. Congratulations once again.

Tim Simmons · 16th December 2007, 08:55 PM

This non ferrous dagger ended also. I ment to bid on it. There is quite a difference in price

.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...MEWA:IT&ih=006

Robert · 16th December 2007, 09:06 PM

Hi Steve,
I ask the same question about the use of brass and copper for blades on some Philippine daggers that I have. I was hoping that when you ask about it in reference to this beautiful piece that it might bring more answers. I too hope that who ever was lucky enough to get this will post better pictures.

Robert

Rick · 16th December 2007, 10:52 PM

Possibly the answer to this question may be rooted in esoteric beliefs .

Battara · 17th December 2007, 04:35 PM

The winner and I have been in contact and we both think that the brass blade is unusual, but may be ceremonial or even talismanic in nature and purpose, since Katipuneros were into that. I will let the owner speak for himself on the rest.

And yes, there have been may European and even US Civil War knives that were really Filipino. The Confederate label raises the price considerably of course. There are signs of being a PI dagger besides the Katipunan symbols (not all had them) but it is best to have them.

Jazz · 21st December 2007, 04:21 PM

Quote:

There are signs of being a PI dagger besides the Katipunan symbols

hi Battara,

Interesting to know that there are some other ways in identifying Katipunan daggers besides the symbols. Could you be so kind as to re-interate on this statement? And is it also guarantee that these tell tale signs are indeed katipunan relics? Thank you.

Battara · 21st December 2007, 08:24 PM

Most of the Katipunan pieces like this usually have a core of horn and are wrapped with twisted wire and/or a band of metal spiraled around the hilt of horn. Also the tang goes all the way through the hilt. Something else I have noticed is that the blades of officer's pieces seem to have a diamond shaped cross section.

Spanish daggers that are similar do not seem to have the spiraled metal and the hilts are made more of wood.

In this case the spiraled metal is gone and I would call this hilt Spanish but everything else is Katipunan. For this reason Katipunan symbols are more valuable IMHO.

Battara · 21st December 2007, 08:28 PM

Here are some other pictures of the piece by permission of the happy owner.

Robert · 21st December 2007, 09:15 PM

Jose, You have one very lucky friend! I really wanted to add this piece to my collection for two reasons. First is its being a Katipunan piece and second is the brass blade. Unfortunately it went for more than my meager budget could afford. Having the engraved sheath is just icing on the cake. Again my congratulations to your friend for getting this great dagger.

kino · 21st December 2007, 09:48 PM

It is indeed a beauty of a dagger.

Battara · 22nd December 2007, 08:27 PM

I would have gone for it except that I was sick and could not bid.

Yes it is a unique and beautiful puppy, and my thanks to him for letting me share his pictures with you!

14th December 2007, 02:35 AM	#1
Ferguson Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kernersville, NC, USA Posts: 793	Katipunan dagger just ended on Ebay. Brass blade? This beautiful piece just ended on Ebay. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWA:IT&ih=002 Hopefully the new owner will post pictures when received. What I don't understand is the brass blade? Being a new collector I haven't run into this before. What is the significance of the blade being brass or bronze? Thanks, and congrats to the new owner. Steve Ferguson

21st December 2007, 08:28 PM	#9
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,139	Here are some other pictures of the piece by permission of the happy owner. Attached Images

16th December 2007, 08:47 PM	#2
Jazz Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 44	It is indeed rare to find weapons that could be positively attributed to the Katipunan movement. Furthermore, European daggers are often mislabeled as Katipunan relic. Just because it is similar in appearance, it's not necessarily a Katipunan sword or dagger. Instead of guessing, one should look for definite Katipunan marks or symbols before labeling such weapon as "Katipunan". Whoever won that bid is indeed lucky. We just hope the winner does post some close ups since we rarely see something of this importance/magnitude. Congratulations once again.

16th December 2007, 08:55 PM	#3
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,739	This non ferrous dagger ended also. I ment to bid on it. There is quite a difference in price . http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...MEWA:IT&ih=006

16th December 2007, 09:06 PM	#4
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Hi Steve, I ask the same question about the use of brass and copper for blades on some Philippine daggers that I have. I was hoping that when you ask about it in reference to this beautiful piece that it might bring more answers. I too hope that who ever was lucky enough to get this will post better pictures. Robert

16th December 2007, 10:52 PM	#5
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,262	Possibly the answer to this question may be rooted in esoteric beliefs .

17th December 2007, 04:35 PM	#6
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,139	The winner and I have been in contact and we both think that the brass blade is unusual, but may be ceremonial or even talismanic in nature and purpose, since Katipuneros were into that. I will let the owner speak for himself on the rest. And yes, there have been may European and even US Civil War knives that were really Filipino. The Confederate label raises the price considerably of course. There are signs of being a PI dagger besides the Katipunan symbols (not all had them) but it is best to have them.

21st December 2007, 08:24 PM	#8
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,139	Most of the Katipunan pieces like this usually have a core of horn and are wrapped with twisted wire and/or a band of metal spiraled around the hilt of horn. Also the tang goes all the way through the hilt. Something else I have noticed is that the blades of officer's pieces seem to have a diamond shaped cross section. Spanish daggers that are similar do not seem to have the spiraled metal and the hilts are made more of wood. In this case the spiraled metal is gone and I would call this hilt Spanish but everything else is Katipunan. For this reason Katipunan symbols are more valuable IMHO.

21st December 2007, 09:15 PM	#10
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Jose, You have one very lucky friend! I really wanted to add this piece to my collection for two reasons. First is its being a Katipunan piece and second is the brass blade. Unfortunately it went for more than my meager budget could afford. Having the engraved sheath is just icing on the cake. Again my congratulations to your friend for getting this great dagger.

21st December 2007, 09:48 PM	#11
kino Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 973	It is indeed a beauty of a dagger.

22nd December 2007, 08:27 PM	#12
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,139	I would have gone for it except that I was sick and could not bid. Yes it is a unique and beautiful puppy, and my thanks to him for letting me share his pictures with you!