Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Ethnographic Weapons

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 1st February 2014, 05:08 PM   #1
Norman McCormick
Member
 
Norman McCormick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,573
Default Silver Pedang Lurus ???

Hi,
My first venture into these types. As per the title I think this is a Javanese Pedang Lurus complete with 'magical' symbology inscribed into the blade. I would appreciate all and any help that you can give re the description, age, use, and the symbols. Many thanks.
Regards,
Norman.
Attached Images
        
Norman McCormick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st February 2014, 07:55 PM   #2
CharlesS
Member
 
CharlesS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Greenville, NC
Posts: 1,855
Default

Norman,

This is a lovely example of a pedang lurus, with a nice pamor to boot! I have to think the blade markings are talismanic, but cannot say for sure. They surely do not look like any of motifs found on recent tourist pieces.

I'd place the age at late 19th century to early 20th, but these blades can fool you.

I hope we can find out more about those markings.
CharlesS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st February 2014, 08:12 PM   #3
A. G. Maisey
Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,676
Default

Yes Norman, a Javanese pedang, it is straight, thus "lurus", it is pointed and designed to stab rather than slash, so "suduk" or "tusuk".

Dress appears to be 19th century, probably second half of the 19th century, might be a bit earlier or a bit later, but definitely pre-WWII; the ornamentation uses common Javanese motifs; the material is very probably mamas, an alloy similar to nickel silver. The blade is probably older, I cannot classify according to the Javanese system from a photo. Swords are used to kill things. The same is true of Javanese swords as is true of any other sword. Swords were and are worn by palace guards in Central Jawa, and this could be one application for this type of sword. You will see the palace soldiers wearing swords like this in the processions that mark the various high days of the palace calendar.

The blade impressions I cannot read, and it is entirely possible that nobody but the person who placed them on the blade could read them or understand their meaning. Some of the symbols give the appearance of letters, in comparison with the 9 or 10 ancient letter forms, including Kawi, and the variations of which I am aware in Modern Javanese forms (honocoroko or hanacaraka) there is too little agreement to permit any guess at what the intended meaning might be. In Jawa various groups would have their own secret language that only the members of the group could understand, so when we see inscriptions that might have been intended to have some sort of esoteric meaning very often that inscription will either be nonsense when common characters have been used to write it, or may be totally unintelligible when some form of non-standard character has been used.
A. G. Maisey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st February 2014, 11:28 PM   #4
David
Keris forum moderator
 
David's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 7,012
Default

Magical alphabet systems are many as a google search will tell and you probably won't find one that matches these characters as i am sure countless systems have never been recorded. That said, my only comment on these characters is that they seem rather cleanly carved into the blade and make me suspect they may have been a much later addition.
David is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd February 2014, 05:20 PM   #5
Norman McCormick
Member
 
Norman McCormick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,573
Default

Hi,
Many thanks gents for your interest and information. Here are some stats, O.A. length 47cm blade length 34 cm, I don't know if the size is sufficient to call it a sword maybe more a long knife. Re the symbols on the blade, there's a nice taper from hilt to tip and the depth of the characters gradually get shallower as one travels toward the tip possibly pointing to some shaping of the blade after the characters were incised into the blade but I will have to bow to your far greater expertise with these type of blades. Thanks once again.
Regards,
Norman.

P.S. Is there anything particular I should be doing to preserve this type of blade other than or instead of my normal oiling.

Last edited by Norman McCormick; 2nd February 2014 at 07:03 PM.
Norman McCormick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd February 2014, 06:25 PM   #6
Sajen
Member
 
Sajen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 8,416
Default

Hi Norman,

very nice pedang suduk! When I am you I would do nothing more to the blade as oiling, the pamor is good visible so it doesn't need a new stain.
Here some pictures of my example. The fittings are from silver and the scabbard have an old local repair.

Regards,

Detlef
Attached Images
       
Sajen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd February 2014, 07:07 PM   #7
Norman McCormick
Member
 
Norman McCormick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,573
Default

Hi Detlef,
Nice to see another one, yours appears to have a longer blade, can you post sizes?
My Regards,
Norman.
Norman McCormick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd February 2014, 10:11 PM   #8
Sajen
Member
 
Sajen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 8,416
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Norman McCormick
Hi Detlef,
Nice to see another one, yours appears to have a longer blade, can you post sizes?
My Regards,
Norman.
Hi Norman,

it's from the size very similar, OA 48 cm, blade is 34,5 cm.

Regards,

Detlef
Sajen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd February 2014, 11:00 PM   #9
Norman McCormick
Member
 
Norman McCormick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,573
Default

Hi Detlef,
Many thanks for the info.
My Regards,
Norman.
Norman McCormick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st March 2014, 08:18 PM   #10
Norman McCormick
Member
 
Norman McCormick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,573
Default

Hi,
Was showing this piece to a friend who is a native Farsi speaker but who is also very knowledgeable regarding religious text in Arabic. She recognised the text from the mid point of the blade to the tip. On one side it reads, Mohammed Messenger of God, followed by a type of 'shorthand' which translates as 'PBOH' i.e. Peace be on Him. The other side of the blade was too indistinct for a full translation and the only word she could be sure of was 'Mohammed', the full text was probably the same or similar to the opposing side. She suggested that the other 'odd letters' were a form of magic writing which she thought was vaguely familiar but couldn't pin down. Hope this is of some interest.
Regards,
Norman.
Norman McCormick is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 08:50 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.