My First post and First Keris

Jason Anstey · 20th December 2006, 11:01 AM

Hi there,

I went on a recent trip to Bali and went in search for a Keris, thankfully I got in contact with Mr Alan Maisey and after numerous question which were very patiently answered. I set off armed with a bit of knowledge on what I could expect from my budget, in search of a newly made piece, so with out further ado I will attach the images of my piece.

I would also like to publicly thank Mr Maisey for his invaluable advice, without which I most certainly would have returned with a piece of junk![IMG]

[/IMG]

Rick · 20th December 2006, 08:44 PM

Looks like a nice contemporary piece Jason; congratulations.
The pamor is Buntil Mayit perhaps?
The hilt form is unfamiliar to me; quite attractive.

A. G. Maisey · 20th December 2006, 08:59 PM

Thanks for the compliments, Jason.

Rick, the dress on Jason's keris is very contemporary in every way, but traditional forms have been followed. That handle is not going to be found amongst examples of older handles, but it does follow the general form of the gerantiman handle style.

kai · 21st December 2006, 12:27 AM

Hello Alan,

Do you know wether this blade was crafted on Madura?

Regards,
Kai

A. G. Maisey · 21st December 2006, 01:00 AM

Kai, rather than "know" the origin of this blade, I would prefer to say that this blade exhibits characteristics that we normally associate with the craftsmen from the Suminep region of Madura.

Where these craftsmen are actually working can be something that is open to question.

Jason Anstey · 21st December 2006, 01:23 AM

THanks chaps,

I was hoping to find out some information on this particular pamour. The gentle man from Bali described it as follows;

THE
PAMOR ON YOUR KERIS IS " PAMOR LILIT" WHICH IS THE PATERN IS SIMILLAR LIKE
THE TEXTILE OR ROPE WRAPPING THE BLADE, THIS KIND OF PAMOR IN OUR BELIEVE IS
TO PROTECT AND KIPPING TO WHAT WE ALREADY HAVE AND GOOD TO CONTROL
OURSELVES. THE WAVE IS SYMBOLIZING OF LIFE,THE LIFE IS ALWAYS LIKE THE RULE:
UP AND DOWN BUT THE FINAL AIM IS ONE ON THE TOP.
THE WHALE BONE USED ON THE WARANGKA (SHEATH) IS MATERIAL THAT CAN PROTECT US
FROM BLACK MAGIC,WE ARE IN BALI CALLED THE WHALE IS " ULAM AGUNG" OR THE
MOST SACRED FISH

Thanks again am currently trying to fight the "keris bug" but feel that it may be too late. It is a fascinating art/tradition/study etc.

Cheers

Jason

David · 21st December 2006, 01:28 AM

Welcome Jason! Glad to see you here.
I don't have much to add to what i have already told you in PMs. I like this blade quite a bit. It is nice to see well made contemporary keris and know that the art is not dead yet. As Alan has already pointed out the hilt form is a new development of an old form and frankly not one i care for very much. I guess i am just Old School

. But it is very nicely crafted non the less. I think you did well on your first keris. I hope you will stick around.
Warning: Keris are highly addictive and can be damaging to you retirement fund!

Rick · 21st December 2006, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Welcome Jason! Glad to see you here.
I don't have much to add to what i have already told you in PMs. I like this blade quite a bit. It is nice to see well made contemporary keris and know that the art is not dead yet. As Alan has already pointed out the hilt form is a new development of an old form and frankly not one i care for very much. I guess i am just Old School

. But it is very nicely crafted non the less. I think you did well on your first keris. I hope you will stick around.
Warning: Keris are highly addictive and can be damaging to you retirement fund!

Hi Jason, I'm Rick and I'm a keris addict.

Would you like a cup of coffee?

David · 21st December 2006, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Hi Jason, I'm Rick and I'm a keris addict.

Would you like a cup of coffee?

but...but...i don't wanna give up my keris addiction....

I do want a cup of coffee though.

Jason Anstey · 21st December 2006, 02:39 PM

Many thanks for the warm welcome and coffee, but me thinks I might need something stronger to fight off the bug. Never mind I'll settle for a Carlton Draught( regular blokes standard Aussie beer)

Next purchase will be something more traditional but I will be reading further to get some knowledge.

As I mentioned before, I was fortunate that advice based on my VERY limited knowledge allowed me to focus on a modern piece, and I am very happy with what I came home with, not only the Keris itself but the whole experience and seeing what was an overwhelming array of Keris in Bali both old and new.

I hope that I will soon be able to ask semi- intelligent questions, but for now I will look forward to reading new threads by other forumites.

Cheers

Jason

A. G. Maisey · 21st December 2006, 06:48 PM

Jason, "lilit" is simply Balinese for "twist".

Balinese, Indonesian and Javanese are all separate languages, but there are some words common to all and a degree of overlap,

What you were told is :- "the pamor on your keris is 'twist pamor'---"

The correct Javanese name for the same pamor is "pamor buntel mayat"---'mayat' means slanting or sloping with the suggestion of 'upwards', 'buntel' means wrapping.

The common, but incorrect name for this pamor in Javanese is "pamor buntel mayit"; 'mayit' means corpse, so "pamor corpse wrapping".

Frankly, I would not hesitate to call this pamor "twist pamor".

There is nothing esoteric or exotic in the pamor name as it is in either Balinese or Javanese. There is no meaning that cannot be conveyed by the English language. If I were speaking with somebody in Jawa I would call it "pamor buntel mayat"; in Bali I would call it "pamor lilit"; in English I would call it a twist pamor.

However---the Javanese name seems to indicate that what we usually see presented as this pamor is not what it might have been intended as originally. In the examples of this pamor that we usually see there is no core, the pamor material has simply been twisted. Everybody accepts this as correct, and it is acknowledged that there is no core in a blade with this pamor.

However, if there is no core, what is it that is being wrapped?

In my opinion, this pamor originally did have a core, the same as any other blade.In fact, over the years I have seen one or two very degraded old blades with this pamor, and with a core.

I suspect that what we accept now as usual for pamor buntel mayat is probably a 19th century development.

Jason Anstey · 23rd December 2006, 05:25 PM

Many thanks Alan,

That is great info and answers a lot for me.

Cheers

Jason

20th December 2006, 11:01 AM	#1
Jason Anstey Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 102	My First post and First Keris Hi there, I went on a recent trip to Bali and went in search for a Keris, thankfully I got in contact with Mr Alan Maisey and after numerous question which were very patiently answered. I set off armed with a bit of knowledge on what I could expect from my budget, in search of a newly made piece, so with out further ado I will attach the images of my piece. I would also like to publicly thank Mr Maisey for his invaluable advice, without which I most certainly would have returned with a piece of junk![IMG][/IMG]

20th December 2006, 08:44 PM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,262	Looks like a nice contemporary piece Jason; congratulations. The pamor is Buntil Mayit perhaps? The hilt form is unfamiliar to me; quite attractive.

20th December 2006, 08:59 PM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,697	Thanks for the compliments, Jason. Rick, the dress on Jason's keris is very contemporary in every way, but traditional forms have been followed. That handle is not going to be found amongst examples of older handles, but it does follow the general form of the gerantiman handle style.

21st December 2006, 12:27 AM	#4
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,215	Hello Alan, Do you know wether this blade was crafted on Madura? Regards, Kai

21st December 2006, 01:00 AM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,697	Kai, rather than "know" the origin of this blade, I would prefer to say that this blade exhibits characteristics that we normally associate with the craftsmen from the Suminep region of Madura. Where these craftsmen are actually working can be something that is open to question.

21st December 2006, 01:23 AM	#6
Jason Anstey Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 102	THanks chaps, I was hoping to find out some information on this particular pamour. The gentle man from Bali described it as follows; THE PAMOR ON YOUR KERIS IS " PAMOR LILIT" WHICH IS THE PATERN IS SIMILLAR LIKE THE TEXTILE OR ROPE WRAPPING THE BLADE, THIS KIND OF PAMOR IN OUR BELIEVE IS TO PROTECT AND KIPPING TO WHAT WE ALREADY HAVE AND GOOD TO CONTROL OURSELVES. THE WAVE IS SYMBOLIZING OF LIFE,THE LIFE IS ALWAYS LIKE THE RULE: UP AND DOWN BUT THE FINAL AIM IS ONE ON THE TOP. THE WHALE BONE USED ON THE WARANGKA (SHEATH) IS MATERIAL THAT CAN PROTECT US FROM BLACK MAGIC,WE ARE IN BALI CALLED THE WHALE IS " ULAM AGUNG" OR THE MOST SACRED FISH Thanks again am currently trying to fight the "keris bug" but feel that it may be too late. It is a fascinating art/tradition/study etc. Cheers Jason

21st December 2006, 01:28 AM	#7
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,023	Welcome Jason! Glad to see you here. I don't have much to add to what i have already told you in PMs. I like this blade quite a bit. It is nice to see well made contemporary keris and know that the art is not dead yet. As Alan has already pointed out the hilt form is a new development of an old form and frankly not one i care for very much. I guess i am just Old School . But it is very nicely crafted non the less. I think you did well on your first keris. I hope you will stick around. Warning: Keris are highly addictive and can be damaging to you retirement fund!

21st December 2006, 02:39 PM	#10
Jason Anstey Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 102	Many thanks for the warm welcome and coffee, but me thinks I might need something stronger to fight off the bug. Never mind I'll settle for a Carlton Draught( regular blokes standard Aussie beer) Next purchase will be something more traditional but I will be reading further to get some knowledge. As I mentioned before, I was fortunate that advice based on my VERY limited knowledge allowed me to focus on a modern piece, and I am very happy with what I came home with, not only the Keris itself but the whole experience and seeing what was an overwhelming array of Keris in Bali both old and new. I hope that I will soon be able to ask semi- intelligent questions, but for now I will look forward to reading new threads by other forumites. Cheers Jason

21st December 2006, 06:48 PM	#11
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,697	Jason, "lilit" is simply Balinese for "twist". Balinese, Indonesian and Javanese are all separate languages, but there are some words common to all and a degree of overlap, What you were told is :- "the pamor on your keris is 'twist pamor'---" The correct Javanese name for the same pamor is "pamor buntel mayat"---'mayat' means slanting or sloping with the suggestion of 'upwards', 'buntel' means wrapping. The common, but incorrect name for this pamor in Javanese is "pamor buntel mayit"; 'mayit' means corpse, so "pamor corpse wrapping". Frankly, I would not hesitate to call this pamor "twist pamor". There is nothing esoteric or exotic in the pamor name as it is in either Balinese or Javanese. There is no meaning that cannot be conveyed by the English language. If I were speaking with somebody in Jawa I would call it "pamor buntel mayat"; in Bali I would call it "pamor lilit"; in English I would call it a twist pamor. However---the Javanese name seems to indicate that what we usually see presented as this pamor is not what it might have been intended as originally. In the examples of this pamor that we usually see there is no core, the pamor material has simply been twisted. Everybody accepts this as correct, and it is acknowledged that there is no core in a blade with this pamor. However, if there is no core, what is it that is being wrapped? In my opinion, this pamor originally did have a core, the same as any other blade.In fact, over the years I have seen one or two very degraded old blades with this pamor, and with a core. I suspect that what we accept now as usual for pamor buntel mayat is probably a 19th century development.

23rd December 2006, 05:25 PM	#12
Jason Anstey Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 102	Many thanks Alan, That is great info and answers a lot for me. Cheers Jason