Interesting Chinese Jian sword

[RSWORD]

I had a bit of spare time today and with the ease of loading pictures onto this new site, I thought I would share a couple of pieces that are not too commonly encountered. The first for this post is an interesting Chinese Jian. The unusual features of this piece is that the handle and the entire scabbard are carved wood and not something commonly encountered. The second is the quality of the mounts on the hilt. After viewing so many poorly cast fittings on all the new stuff coming out of China, it is good to have an example of good casting to make comparisons. The blade is an early one and has great metallurgical details. Comments or questions?

[Mark]

Beautiful. If I didn't collect dha, I would definately be collecting jian (or yatagan ... or keris ... or ...). I love the detail in the fittings.

[wilked aka Khun Deng]

I've been eyeballing the jians over at Chinese Arms website as I really liked their refurbished jians. I thought those were top grade but they don't seem to have the depth of casting or the carving that yours do. I absolutely love the grain in that blade, something dhas don't give you. Well now that I've seen quality I won't be satisfied with less.

[Jim McDougall]

Rick,
An absolutely stunning example of Chinese jian ! These were the ultimate fencing swords in China, and typically carried and use only by officers and the elite. It is interesting that these were also favored by Taoists because of the extreme finesse enabled in fencing with them, avoiding the overall brutality of the more familiar and heavier dao often used generally by martial groups. Also especially interesting is the pommel which carries the symbol of the eight trigrams. Many of the large 'da dao' ring pommel sabres have this symbol engraved on the blade and are associated with the BaGwa rebellion of 1813. This was a large scale uprising of various religious sects of the 'Millenarian religion' hoping to unseat the Qing rulers. Among the groups were secret societies such as the White Lotus and various 'triad' groups.

Much of the doctrine and teachings of these were literary and maintained by scholars, and it has been noted that the jian was highly favored by scholars. The jian itself is included as one of the eight auspicious symbols of Taoism.
It would be interesting to know if this example may be early enough to have been possibly carried by a well heeled Taoist scholar during these times.
As always, I would defer to Philip Tom for more conclusive observations and corrections as required.
Beautiful sword Rick!!!
All the best,
Jim

[Battara]

I had the fortune of handling this piece and the detailed work is exquisite. It felt good in the hand and well balanced. Impressive piece (and I'm not usually interested in Chinese pieces).

[John]

Nice looking Jian but must acknowledge I know very little about them although there's a fair bit of interest. Provenanced Jians from private collections posted at forums seems to be so few and far in between.

Here's a Jian (with the 7 "stars") which I know next to nothing about except that it has been in the hands of the last owner for the past 10 years. The metal decorations of the scabbard/handle appear to be covered with white and red coating which I have had difficulty removing.

[RSWORD]

Jim
I believe you are right on the money with this sword possibly belonging to a Taoist. The scabbard is nicely carved with auspicious symbols. I am adding some pics of some of the carving on the scabbard, as well as, some markings found on the scabbard. Can anyone translate? I think it could date as early as 1813 although the wood is in pristine condition.(the wood has shrunk a fair bit as the fittings were a bit loose and the handle is cracked on one side. A good sign of age.) Philip was kind enough to do the polish on the blade and to my pleasant surprise, it is the first of its exact kind that Philip has run across.

Dan
The graining is quite nice but do not despair on Dha. Andrew has a nice example with a blade in polish that reveals a nice watered pattern. Perhaps he could post pics.

John
Nice looking example. It looks proper as far as the fittings go and could well be a late 19th, early 20th century example.

[fearn]

Hi RSword,

Those symbols look like they belong to three of the eight immortals:
fan, for Han Chang Li
clappers, for Tsao, the immortal uncle
and sword, for Lu Tung bin.

If this holds, there should be an iron staff or wine vessel, a flute, a donkey or gourd, a lotus, and a basket of flowers somewhere on the sword or scabbard.

Is it Taoist? Maybe. The I Ching was used by Chinese Buddhists and Confucianists as well, and the eight immortals are, as I understand it, more folk saints than taoist deities.

Neat sword! As I recall, there is an eight immortals sword set (probably more than one), and you might want to learn it with this blade...

[John]

My layman's pinyin & translation of the characters:

Top characters read as Tung (together) Sheng (prosperous).
Bottom characters as Tai (great) He (river).

Perhaps someone more academic could decode deeper.

The 3 symbols are indeed of 3 of the 8 immortals Fearn mentioned. But I'm a little surprised your blade does not have the "7 stars", an important symbol for a Daoist if indeed the Jian has Daoist connection. The blade reminds me of one I had the priviledge of seeing in pictures a few years ago belonging to Bill Marsh, a very nice Jian and restored by the same restorer I think.

[Nick Wardigo]

Being a jian collector, I thought I'd chime in.

From experience, I associate this style of scabbard fittings to very late Qing (late 19th century to early 20th). Toward the end of the dynasty, the fittings tend to be more simple (at least on the user pieces). Your fittings appear to be substantial, something that isn't universally true.

The scabbard and handle carvings are a bit of a puzzle for me. I've seen similar handle carving on butterfly swords of the same era, but very rarely on a jian handle, and I don't think I've ever seen it on a scabbard. Very nice.

I would associate the scabbard and handle with the scabbard fittings, that is, I think they were put together at the same time. I think the crossguard and probably the pommel are from another set. This type of scabbard fitting is usually paired with a similarly simple crossguard. Coming from the other direction, this style of hilt fitting is usually paired with a similarly decorated scabbard fitting (like the example that John posted). I suspect the blade and hilt fittings are older (early to mid-1800s), and the weapon was re-scabbarded and re-handled in the early 1900s.

I agree that the decoration is likely Taoist, but I would not discount the possibility of Buddhist. While the references to the 8 Immortals certainly points to Taoism, I'd like to draw attention to the use of swastikas in the background pattern. While the swastika is also a Taoist symbol, I usually association this type of patterning with Buddhism; one often sees it on Korean and Vietnamese weapons.

The blade is quite nice. I'm not surprised about the lack of the seven stars. I don't have hard statistics or anything, but I find they show up on about half of the nicer blades I encounter.

[fearn]

I'm certainly not a jian collector--mine are simply for practicing.

Correct me if I'm wrong Nick, but aren't there six stars in the fittings on the scabbard and hilt? I'm fascinated by your idea that the guard and pommel are from another set, and I wonder if perhaps that's where the seventh star went.

I'd also like to quibble with something said earlier. Yes, the jian was a dueling sword, whereas the dao was more of a military saber (thinking of the regular one, not the infinite variants). Kumar Frantzis (a noted Taoist martial artist) stated that the jian was better in a 1-on-1 duel, whereas the dao was better in a 1-on-many melee. Don't know if he's right, but it makes some sense.

However, I think that the idea that the Taoists preferred the jian is because the tai chi jian art is so refined. If you look at Pakua chang, which has equally deep (if not deeper) taoist roots, you'll find that their greatest swordsmen all used the dao, although Pakua jian sets certainly exist. In other words, it takes all kinds.

Returning to this fine blade, I wonder if we're reading a bit much into the decorations. I keep remembering the jian that turned up on ebay a few years back, that had a working abacus built into the blade near the hilt. I think that, in both these cases, someone was willing to pay for the extra work on their swords, and in this case, they chose an eight immortals theme for whatever reason. Since there is at least one eight immortals jian set that I'm aware of, I'd speculate that the original owner of the blade simply liked the set, or some eight immortals style (there are a couple, including drunken styles).

F

[Nick Wardigo]

Fearn--

Actually, the cut-out decoration you're seeing on the scabbard fittings and hilt ferrule are coins, not stars. Take a look at the square hole inside the circle, indicative of ancient Chinese coins. To quote from "Symbols and Rebuses in Chinese Art" by Fang Jing Pei (Ten Speed Press, 2004, p. 46), "Coins have many symbolic meanings in Chinese culture, all of which have to do with wealth and riches." You see it crop up a lot. I currently own a Taoist ritual jian that has eight of these on its scabbard and hilt fittings.

I think the comment that Taoists preferred jian stems from the nature of jian fencing, which is typically more complex and requires a longer amount of time to master. To a Taoist, the extreme attention to an infinite number of details may be akin to a form of meditation. This takes jian practice outside the realm of combat (or rather, strictly combat) and into religious practice. From that perspective, it would be correct to say that Taoists preferred jian. I might add that any casual perusal of Taoist religious art will show Immortals, heroes, and deities typically using jian over other weapons (there are exceptions).

Rick--
You mentioned that "it is the first of its exact kind that Philip has run across." Could you elaborate on that? Are you referring to the carving on the scabbard, or some element of the blade? I only ask because whenever Phil says something like that, I tend to listen VERY closely.

[RSWORD]

I appreciate all the input. It has been very enlightening.

Nick,

Philip pointed out several unique features about this piece. He mentioned that this is the first example he has run across where the scabbard was of carved wood and so intricately carved at that. Another unique feature was the pommel. Philip mentioned he has only seen one other pommel like this one and it was on a sword in the Met's collection. He also speculated that the blade might be 18th century or earlier. Since the tang was not visible for a more educated guess, he based this on the fact that the tip was very thick at the edges, almost like a chisel, and this could indicate that it was originally intended to pierce armour. The blade is certainly stout enough to hold up to such a task. The edges on this sword are also very, very hard. Your comments on the heavy brass fittings on the scabbard and the pommel/guard are right on the money.