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Old 15th March 2018, 07:53 PM   #1
Kmaddock
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Default Any idea of what I just purchased

Hi All
Not much to go on I know
I will have item in a week or so and I have no info other than images I have put here
It is the green handled sword I am wondering about, looks like some sort of stone material on the handle
the spdroon looks nice as well, and the British sword should subsidize the price of the other two swords quiet well, I have put these to give idea of scale.

Anyone know what I have, ethnic or European I do not know
Any information much appreciated as always
Regards
Ken
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Old 15th March 2018, 08:14 PM   #2
fernando
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kmaddock
... It is the green handled sword I am wondering about, looks like some sort of stone material on the handle ...

Bizarre; isn't the (whatever) blade inside its sheath ?
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Old 15th March 2018, 08:32 PM   #3
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Green dyed Ivory grip, and a very battered 18th C. hunting sword??
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Old 15th March 2018, 08:34 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David R
Green dyed Ivory grip, and a very battered 18th C. hunting sword??



Exactly!
Regards,
Norman.
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Old 15th March 2018, 08:39 PM   #5
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Hi
Yes Fernando it looks as if the sword is in a scabard, I decided not to mention this to see if others taught the same.

Dyed Ivory was that a well known adaptation? I never heard of it, bu5 I donít know a lot about a lot of things.
Swords are in other part of the country but I should be able to arrange shipment tomorrow and I will post up pictures then, probably not much to discuss with images provided but I am looking forward to seeing what I have bought

Regards

Ken
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Old 15th March 2018, 08:54 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kmaddock
Hi
Yes Fernando it looks as if the sword is in a scabard, I decided not to mention this to see if others taught the same.

Dyed Ivory was that a well known adaptation?

Ken


Hi Ken,
It does look like there are remnants of a scabbard but it is difficult to be sure. Dyed ivory is indeed a well known form of embellishment but not common.
Regards,
Norman.
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Old 16th March 2018, 03:42 AM   #7
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Just repeating and confirming what others have already said...18th century hanger, possibly English, French or American, dyed green ivory was in vogue mid/late 18th c., your piece appears to be missing its cross-guard and pommel cap, but need better pics. And yes, it appears to be stuck in its scabbard. Not an uncommon conundrum, unfortunately. Most of these were hunting pieces, but they were also popular with infantry and naval officers.
mark
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Old 16th March 2018, 07:07 PM   #8
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See also George Washington's swords here on the forum, specifically the 'fishkill' sword, a green gripped cuttoe/hanger/hunting sword he favoured.
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Old 16th March 2018, 08:13 PM   #9
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Thanks for finding the link to George Washingtonís sword I can see the similarities alright
I will have swords by Tuesday or Wednesday
Itís the St Patrickís day festival here in Ireland so things slow down.

Looking forward to seeing what I have now and I will share pictures next week
Happy St Patrickís day and if there is any Irish in you at all raise a glass over the weekend!!!
Slainte (cheers is Gaelic)
Ken
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Old 18th March 2018, 12:46 AM   #10
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If that is the tang of the blade sticking way out, it may be a composite. It also seems to be missing a guard of any type.

Cheers

GC
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Old 18th March 2018, 05:59 AM   #11
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Hi Ken:

I tried enhancing the pictures you posted, and the handle is a bit more visible in one of them.

Ian.

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Old 18th March 2018, 08:33 AM   #12
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That tang extension may have been for a missing pommel, possibly a lion or an eagle shape, as well as for holding the missing guard piece(s). the green grip may be a bit further forward that it was when the guard piece was there.
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Old 18th March 2018, 05:55 PM   #13
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Yes, with a quillion block, and cap/pommel, that all might add up.

Cheers

GC
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Old 19th March 2018, 10:34 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kmaddock
Anyone know what I have, ethnic or European I do not know
Any information much appreciated as always
Regards
Ken



Hello Ken,

I'm relatively sure, that this is a so called "Jagdplaute", a German slightly curved hunting sword.

Please try this search and you will find more of them:
https://www.google.de/search?q=jagd...iw=1600&bih=864

or this link (only in German): http://www.zietenhusar.wg.am/jagdplaute/

But there is another possibility, it could be an American revolutionary war naval officer's sword. https://www.google.de/search?q=amer...f=1521459846789

In my opinion it is quite unusual for a military sword.


Roland
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Old 19th March 2018, 04:53 PM   #15
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Hi Roland
Thanks for the post, you might have gotten to the bottom of the identification.
I should have sword tomorrow or Wednesday
I will take more pictures when I have it in hand.
Pity about the missing parts but such is the story.
Regards
Ken
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Old 19th March 2018, 04:59 PM   #16
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if the missing bits were silver, it could be they were stripped off and sold for the metal content.

if you have any craft workshops in your area you may find a jeweller that can lostwax cast replacements with the above drawing as a guide. probably cheaper if you use bronze rather than silver. good luck.
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Old 19th March 2018, 05:02 PM   #17
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I've got a suspicion that the Ivory is in fact a piece of Narwhal tusk.
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Last edited by Rick : 20th March 2018 at 01:21 AM. Reason: sp
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Old 22nd March 2018, 10:01 PM   #18
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Hi All
Swords arrived
Here are some better images of my sword
Length of blade is 75 cm
Handle is a further 11 cm
Blade has no markings but some very nice fuller work and is in good enough condition
There is a bit missing from the handle so I can see inside
If it is narwhal or ivory or bone I do not known.
Has anyone got any opinion.It definitely does look like the sword Roland put up I put it closer to the American sword than the German one though?

The remnants we taught was part of scabard was just a strip of leather wound round the blade

I am handy enough at metal work so the silver work might be done.
I have exams coming up but it would be a nice project

The Spadroon is a lovely sword so I will take some pictures of that over the weekend

Regards

Ken
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Old 23rd March 2018, 09:42 AM   #19
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The thin lines going round the grip look manmade to me so I would guess itís made from bone. See how those thin lines have been extended to the short side where the pommel would have been attached. May have been made to imitate narwal to keep costs down? Otherwise it could be narwal with decorative lines added by a craftsman.

The American sword is beautiful and if you could fashion a pommel and guard it would look very nice! I guess the chances of finding loose replacements in the market must be slim?
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Old 24th March 2018, 01:07 AM   #20
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I still stick with an English hanger, bone handle with green dye.

Here's a past thread of my lion hilt hanger, just to show the similarities in the blade and fuller.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=14342

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Old 24th March 2018, 09:05 AM   #21
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I just thought the handle showed remarkable similarities with the American Revolutionary sword pictured above. As is often the case with old swords, it can be tricky to assign a nationality to them! Might indeed be an England finished sword with a German blade??

Thank you for the link to the excellent thread. Must be many threads like that lurking in the forum. I wish they were filed by topic but here the search function is very useful.

Does anyone know what that little chain on the American Revolutionary sword attaching the guard to the pommel is for? I canít imagine its purpose is to protect the knuckle as itís far too delicate. Could it be to prevent the wearer from dropping the sword (which would be especially annoying at sea where it might disappear under the waves forever!) like some portepee? Some Hungarian hussar sabres from the second half of the 17thC also have this feature.
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Old 24th March 2018, 10:07 AM   #22
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Arabian swords, english mourning swords, and as you see, hunting swords, hangers, and others without knuckle guards can also. I favour the retention option. many still have sword knots...
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Old 24th March 2018, 11:48 AM   #23
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Hungarian-Polish sabre from Polish Arms by A. Nadolski showing chain.
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