Food For Thought - Page 2

B.I · 7th March 2006, 06:01 PM

ahem!
you dont have to be in your twenties to own an mp3 player.

.............do you?

Lee · 7th March 2006, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by not2sharp

... Werner Muensterberger's Collecting - An Unruly Passion (Princeton unv press, 1994). He looks at the collecting from a psychoanalytic perspective and cites the popularity of collecting well back to the edge of recorded history. He believe that collectors and collecting do so to satisfy some basic need ... collectors tend to derive comfort from acquring objects and from the quest for the objects.

I will have to try to find that book; I agree with the viewpoint you have summarized. Take a look at the effort people will go to for imaginary items in games like World of Warcraft and the compulsive efforts pursuring the numerous quests in that game.

I am presently savoring my way through Philip K. Dick's The Man in the High Castle (1962) and some of his insights relevant to collecting and faking antiques.

I believe the thing for us to be concerned with is not a fading interest in what we collect, but the danger of legislative prohibitions upon these objects as weapons. The 2nd Amendment (thank you Founding Fathers) provides us some shielding in the USA, but some of our Australian comrade's collections may well be in peril.

... gtg ... WoW servers should now be back up...

Valjhun · 7th March 2006, 07:04 PM

I never understood the fact, why would be owning an antique, not sharp katana submissed to prohibitions when you can buy a lot cheaper chainsaw in the next hardware store... Let's gonna left to the court experst to say wich can make more damage to fellow citizens.. nosense...

Tim Simmons · 7th March 2006, 07:08 PM

I just do not understand this moral panic about antique weapon collecting, the weapons available at any DIY store or garden center are many. Like religion the weapon is harmless it is the person behind it that is dangerous. Tim.

Mark · 7th March 2006, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by not2sharp

The Master and Commander series contains one book in which Jack and crew fend off attacks from kris waving pirates. It is closely based on a true event which staretd with a British shipwreck in ~1813. In the true life story the Captain manages to fend survive the accidental grounding on an unchartered reef, rescue his crew, deliver a VIP Envoy, organize an economy, and fend off heavy pirate attacks; not only do they survive but they do so without losing a single crew member - and on the way home the Captain even gets to meet with Napolian on Elba. The novel is greatly toned down; nobody would believe the real story even if it was true.

Perhaps the powers that be will pursuade Russel Crow to take a shot at a sequel to Master and Commander.

n2s

I read a cool passage in a biography of an ancestor of mine, Nathaniel Bowditch (mathematician, navigator, and a Salem ship captain in the spice trade in the late 18th C), about his first visit to Java. I should look up the port, etc., but he noticed that every one of the workers who came out in little boats to load pepper onto his ship had a keris stuck in the back of his waistband. This caused him some concern, so he insisted that only one boat be allowed to unload onto his ship at a time, and no more than three Malay be allowed on board at one time. Such was the reputation of Malay pirates at the time. The port folks were severely aggrevated, but he kept firm (basically said "there is pepper at the next port, so do it my way or get out of my way") and everything went smoothly. He was hardly a Russel Crowe swashbuckler -- quite a little egg-head, actually -- which makes the story all the more amusing.

VANDOO · 7th March 2006, 08:04 PM

"ETHINOGRAPHIC ART" WILL ALWAYS HAVE WORTH AS LONG AS THERE ARE GALLERIES AND AUCTIONS SUCH AS SOUTHBYS AND CHRISTIES AND ANTIQUE ROADSHOW. MUCH IF NOT MOST OF THEIR SALES ARE FOR INVESTMENT POTENTIAL NOT JUST TO COLLECT BECAUSE YOU ARE INTERESTED AND LOVE THAT KIND OF STUFF.
THE ITEMS OFTEN BECOME VALUABLE BECAUSE THE CULTURES WHO PRODUCED THEM ARE EITHER GONE OR DON'T MAKE THINGS NEAR THE QUALITY AS THE OLD ORIGINAL ITEMS. LESS EXAMPLES OF A TYPE OF ITEM LEADS TO HIGHER PRICES DUE TO ITS RARITY SO WELL CRAFTED EXAMPLES SHOULD CONTINUE TO INCREASE.
COLLECTORS OF EDGED WEAPONS ARE ODDBALLS COMPARED TO MOST OF THE VERY NUMEROUS REDNECK CULTURE WHO ONLY DISCUSS,SPORTS,WOMEN,POWER TOOLS, CARS, TV PROGRAMS, FISHIN AND HUNTING

BUT EVEN THEY OFTEN COLLECT FISHING LURES,GUNS, TOOLS AND SPORTS RELATED STUFF SO I GUESS THEY AREN'T ALL THAT DIFFERENT FROM US AFTER ALL

WE ARE A SMALL MINORITY AS FAR AS COLLECTING GOES, THERE ARE MANY MORE STAMP AND COIN COLLECTORS EVEN ROCK AND FOSSIL COLLECTORS OUTNUMBER US. THATS GOOD AS IT LEAVES MORE STUFF FOR EACH OF US

BUT AS THE POPULATION CONTINUES TO INCREASE I AM SURE THERE WILL BE PLENTY OF NEW COLLECTORS TO REPLACE US WHEN THEY GET BITTEN BY THE SAME BUG THAT BIT US. WITH THE INTERNET WE WILL ALSO HAVE THE ADVANTAGE OF SELLING TO THE ENTIRE WORLD INSTEAD OF TO THE ONE WEIRD KID AT THE LOCAL GUN SHOW SO OUR POSSIBILITYS OF PASSING ON OUR COLLECTIONS ARE BETTER THAN IN THE PAST.

Titus Pullo · 7th March 2006, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

I just do not understand this moral panic about antique weapon collecting, the weapons available at any DIY store or garden center are many. Like religion the weapon is harmless it is the person behind it that is dangerous. Tim.

I don't believe religeon plays a direct role behind the fundamentalist-extremists' politcal view and agenda. But what I do believe is religeons do give these people the courage and strength to carry out their evil, personal, political agenda. So it gives them the strength and courage to do, what they think, any violent demonstrations that is necessary.

Tim Simmons · 7th March 2006, 08:28 PM

I would agree there, but I must say I was not necessarily thinking of acts of violence, we digress and the gods will be upon us. Tim

Rick · 7th March 2006, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

I would agree there, but I must say I was not necessarily thinking of acts of violence, we digress and the gods will be upon us. Tim

Indeed they will .

Mark · 7th March 2006, 11:59 PM

And .... we will end the little digression into theology RIGHT THERE, please. In the words of Bartok the bat, "It will only end in tears."

I'm not as subtle as Rick.

BSMStar · 8th March 2006, 12:42 AM

It has been my experience in collecting that:

1. I start collecting…
2. It starts to catch on… the “I want one too” factor.
3. More become available, but the prices start to go up.
4. Reproductions find their way into the market place.
5. Prices end up “through the roof,” it becomes difficult to find good stuff.
6. Reproduction are good or better than the originals.
7. Its time to change fields for what I collect because of the fakes and the super high prices.

I have “cycled” through WWI, WWII, Vietnam and Soviet period militaria. I believe you will all find the above “cycle” has been true for all of these. Personally, I believe it will also be true for edged weapons. Dig in and hold on. You will not see this stuff again. If the prices go down (yea right), I am sure there are a number of us that will be happy to pick them up from you.

not2sharp · 8th March 2006, 01:47 AM

If we want to continue to generate interest in our hobby we have to work on getting information out into the public. Unfortunately, there are very few venues dedicated to ethnographic weapon. Every so often we see a stray magazine article, and there are usually a few examples described in a dozen or so words scattered around major museums. But, we do not have a systematic voice, nor a media mechanism which would be attractive to non-collectors.

This is an example of what we should try to pull together.

http://www.museumofwebism.com/3DGalleryTest/index.htm

Imagine a virtual museum dedicated to the study of ethnographic weapons that can be accessible to collectors all around the net and which is populated with many thousands of examples cataloged into dozens of exhibition halls. Such would be the new Stone glossary for the 21th century. Perhaps we should build such a thing and call it the Cameron Stone Museum of Ethnographic Weapondry in his honor.

n2s

nechesh · 8th March 2006, 04:30 AM

Tell me again exactly why i might want to generate interest in others in my hobby? Frankly i find there is quite enough competition for the weapons i collect. There will always be a percentage of the population with an interest in antique edged weapons, it is a part of our human nature to study such things. I don't think we need to create the interest or attempt to turm non-collectors into collectors. Personally, i don't collect keris as a monetary investment (ssshhh! that's not what i tell the wife!

), but for my own personal enjoyment, study and (hopefully) understanding. Sure, it's nice to share in discussion and debate (thank you very much Vikingsword) and if i had children i am sure i would try to interest them in my passion. From time to time i encounter a friend who shares my interest. I think that as i age i will continue to encounter interested younger parties that i feel understand the keris enough to properly care for them and i very possibly might pass some blades along to these folks. I don't plan to have children so the people who recieve these keris will not just be getting an inheritance that that might simply sell off, but something they will prize and want to own. When i go i might very well bequeath the bulk of my collection to a museum (but they have to promise not to paint those little white numbers on them

).

not2sharp · 8th March 2006, 04:42 AM

Quote:

Tell me again exactly why i might want to generate interest in others in my hobby?

For one thing; there are probably dozens of examples of whatever you collect which were just ground down today to make a nice set of tent pegs for someone. The more we inform the more people come to appreciate the historical artifacts around them. Even if they don't persoanlly collect they would know enough to salvage and value some of these relics of the past.

For another; from shared experience comes shared learning. There is much we wish that we knew which will never come to light unless we have the ability to study a great many examples. While a virtual museum is not like having the items at hand; we can learn quite a bit to help us better date and catagorize these items. If we have a dozen sword which are similar enough to deduce that they were likely made by the same hands, and one turns up with a pedegree, then the whole lot benefits from that shared piece of infomation.

(btw - virtual museums will probably never ask you to add those little white numbers

)

n2s

nechesh · 8th March 2006, 02:07 PM

n2s, i certainly wasn't arguing against your virtual museum idea, though i don't believe it will create new collectors or inform anyone who might choose to turn some keris into a "nice set of tent pegs".

Why would such people bother to look at such a site. To find things like that on the internet you need to have at least enough interest to search it out. My point is that there are and probably always will be a precentage of people interested in this subject. They will continue to collect and find ways to talk about it with others (like your proposed site). But i don't feel the need to inform Joe Beerbottle that that old knife his uncle left him is a courtier's keris from the Mataram kingdom of Java. He is uninterested, not stupid, so he doesn't throw it away, he puts it up on ebay (the worlds marketplace). To him it's old junk that somebody might want. I am fine with him continuing to see it that way. I don't feel any great need to educate him. Now Jimmy Coolkife (

) Runs across an old keris in the attic that used to belong to grandpa. Old knives interest him so he does a little internet searching. Maybe he ends up at your virtual museum (or here

). I am more than happy to share experience with him and help him work out what he has. But i didn't have to create his interest, it was already there. And believe me, there are quite enough interested parties out there as can be proved by the number of times i've been beat at the auction block.

I say start up you virtual museum and i am sure others will join. I would probably get involved myself somewhere along the line. Still, while your vitual museum might not put little white numbers on my blades, it still doesn't solve the original question of this thread, which is what will happen to my PHYSICAL collection when i go. Those were the issues i was addressing.

BluErf · 8th March 2006, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Well , there is a very old Hollywood movie starring Gary Cooper and David Niven ; The Real Glory . Of course it is a slanted view of things but not a bad flick at all .
Made in 1939 available on videotape VHS digitally remastered with stereo sound .

Try :

filmwest@pacbell.net

Whoa, that's an old film! But to watch it, I've have to get a VHS player... Chucked the player about 10yrs ago...

BluErf · 8th March 2006, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B.I

ahem!
you dont have to be in your twenties to own an mp3 player.

.............do you?

Well, not really... but 90% are in their twenties, if not teens.

BluErf · 8th March 2006, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nechesh

I say start up you virtual museum and i am sure others will join. I would probably get involved myself somewhere along the line. Still, while your vitual museum might not put little white numbers on my blades, it still doesn't solve the original question of this thread, which is what will happen to my PHYSICAL collection when i go. Those were the issues i was addressing.

We have a rudimentary virtual keris museum already!!

http://www.kampungnet.com.sg/modules...view_album.php

And there are a few sites out there dedicated to Javanese kerises.

What happens to our physical collection depends on what we do -- we can leave it to rust, stowed away in the basement, forgotten. Or we could leave it to the 'mercy' of our children. Or we could donate them to the museum. Or we could find good 'homes' for them before we get too old.

A point I've always wanted to make is -- don't donate collections to the museum. What goes in seldom comes out (not the decent ones anyway), and no matter how well they are conserved, they are still confined to a 'storeroom' most of the time. I believe that there should good pieces out there, for the responsible and knowledgeable collectors to enjoy and care for.

VANDOO · 8th March 2006, 04:05 PM

I AGREE THAT THE INTREST IS ALREADY THERE FOR YOU TO BECOME A COLLECTOR IT JUST NEEDS TO BE STIRRED BY SEEING SOMETHING COOL OR INTERESTING. IT WOULD BE SIMPLE TO INCREASE THE PRICE AND DEMAND FOR EDGED WEAPONS BUT NOT THE NUMBER OF REAL COLLECTORS. JUST HAVE A ANTIQUE ROADSHOW AND HAVE LOTS OF PEOPLE WITH SOME TYPE OF EDGED WEAPONS AND SAY THEY ALL FOUND THEM IN ATTICS, GARAGE SALES OR ESTATE SALES AND PAYED $10.00 FOR IT ,THE EXPERT THEN SAYS THIS IS A BLAH BLAH BLAH AND IS WORTH $100000.00

THE BUY IT SELL IT GROUP WHICH VASTLY OUTNUMBER COLLECTORS WOULD SCOUR EVERY NOOK AND CRANNY IN THE COUNTRY, BIDDING WOULD GO CRAZYIER ON EBAY. THEN WOULD BE THE SMART TIME TO SELL OUT OUR COLLECTIONS BUT WHO EVER SAID A TRUE COLLECTOR WAS SMART ENOUGH TO LIKE MONEY MORE THAN HIS COLLECTION

THE IDEA OF A VIRTUAL STONES GLOSSARY IS A GOOD ONE AND WAS BROUGHT UP IN THE OLD FORUM POSTS IT MAY HAVE BEEN ONE I STARTED EARLY ON IF YOU WANT TO FIND IT USING THE SEARCH FUNCTION. I THINK CONOGRE WAS GATHERING PICTURES AND INFORMATION ALSO. THERE IS ENOUGH INFORMATION HERE IN THE VIKINGSWORD POSTS TO COMPILE QUITE A LARGE GLOSSARY IF SOMEONE WOULD TAKE ON THE MONUMENTAL TASK OF ORGANIZING IT. THE MEMBERS HERE COULD ALSO ADD MORE TO IT IF NECESSARY I HAVE BEEN COLLECTING INFORMATION FOR YEARS AND AM SURE OTHERS HAVE AS WELL. LARGE DEALERS LIKE ORIENTAL ARMS ARE SURE TO HAVE MORE REFRENCES AND KNOWLEGE THAN ONE WHO JUST COLLECTS, SO THEY MIGHT BE ABLE TO SUPPLY SOME INFORMATION AS TIME WOULD PERMIT. THE BIG ADVANTAGE OF THE INTERNET FORMAT OVER A BOOK IS THAT YOU CAN CONTINUE TO ADD TO THE INFORMATION AND ALSO CORRECT ANY MISTAKES IF BETTER INFORMATION COMES ALONG LATER.

Rick · 8th March 2006, 04:37 PM

I'm fairly convinced that this forum itself is a contributing force to driving up prices in most antique weapon selling venues .

nechesh · 8th March 2006, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BluErf

What happens to our physical collection depends on what we do -- we can leave it to rust, stowed away in the basement, forgotten. Or we could leave it to the 'mercy' of our children. Or we could donate them to the museum. Or we could find good 'homes' for them before we get too old.

A point I've always wanted to make is -- don't donate collections to the museum. What goes in seldom comes out (not the decent ones anyway), and no matter how well they are conserved, they are still confined to a 'storeroom' most of the time. I believe that there should good pieces out there, for the responsible and knowledgeable collectors to enjoy and care for.

Alas Kai Wee, i tend to agree and i guess i am just hoping and praying that i might come across that different, more caring museum space before i go. Probably not likely. But perhaps there is a museum with an arms section out there that is sore in need of a keris display. You never know. Doing my best to find "good homes" for them is probably my main option. That means someone who respects a certain amount of tradition and is willing to periodically oil and cense the keris and be willing to find someone after them to do the same in turn. In a sense, to treat the keris like pusaka. Difficult i know, in this day and age, but not impossible.

nechesh · 8th March 2006, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

I'm fairly convinced that this forum itself is a contributing force to driving up prices in most antique weapon selling venues .

All right everyone....now stop that, stop it right now!

BluErf · 10th March 2006, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

I'm fairly convinced that this forum itself is a contributing force to driving up prices in most antique weapon selling venues .

Yes, and after a while, collectors will tend to home in on the same sort of pieces that were discussed and shared here... Not good, not good...

Andrew · 10th March 2006, 01:14 PM

Move along, nothing to see here...

not2sharp · 10th March 2006, 02:47 PM

In, the interest of protecting advantageous pricing, this forum should be re-focus to the discussion of ethnographic toilet seats.

Now here we have a fine 19th century example from New England.....

n2s

Rick · 10th March 2006, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by not2sharp

In, the interest of protecting advantageous pricing, this forum should be re-focus to the discussion of ethnographic toilet seats.

Now here we have a fine 19th century example from New England.....

n2s

No fair !
I was drinking coffee ...........

You owe me a new keyboard .

nechesh · 10th March 2006, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by not2sharp

In, the interest of protecting advantageous pricing, this forum should be re-focus to the discussion of ethnographic toilet seats.

Now here we have a fine 19th century example from New England.....

n2s

LOL!!! Best laugh i've had all day.....you know, that's a nice seat, i want one! $$$$$$

Rick · 10th March 2006, 08:13 PM

How does this bill currently before my state legislators strike you ?

http://www.mass.gov/legis/bills/senate/st01/st01384.htm

Hmmm ?

Tim Simmons · 10th March 2006, 08:36 PM

I am a collector to so please do not get me wrong but to brazenly sport weapons in a civilised urban environment you deserve all the trouble you get. I do not go shopping for bread and milk brandishing a Khyber knife and I do not make my home at night with my parang. The bill does not outlaw the possession of a machete it just requires the appropriate common sense about the use and display in public. This is something we collectors usually do naturally and we are unlikely to feel the force of the law. Unfortunately there have been headline grabbing incidents where idiots cause problems. I can think of parallels in other aspects of society but they get away with it. Tim

Rick · 10th March 2006, 09:21 PM

Chip , chip , chip ............

I see nothing in the bill relating to brazenly sporting weapons .

I do see a wide open definition of 'machete' .

I also see an attempt to register a bladed device .

Not to mention of course a ahem , yearly *registration fee* .

7th March 2006, 11:59 PM	#40
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 987	Ahem And .... we will end the little digression into theology RIGHT THERE, please. In the words of Bartok the bat, "It will only end in tears." I'm not as subtle as Rick.

8th March 2006, 12:42 AM	#41
BSMStar Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kansas City, MO USA Posts: 312	My Experience... It has been my experience in collecting that: 1. I start collecting… 2. It starts to catch on… the “I want one too” factor. 3. More become available, but the prices start to go up. 4. Reproductions find their way into the market place. 5. Prices end up “through the roof,” it becomes difficult to find good stuff. 6. Reproduction are good or better than the originals. 7. Its time to change fields for what I collect because of the fakes and the super high prices. I have “cycled” through WWI, WWII, Vietnam and Soviet period militaria. I believe you will all find the above “cycle” has been true for all of these. Personally, I believe it will also be true for edged weapons. Dig in and hold on. You will not see this stuff again. If the prices go down (yea right), I am sure there are a number of us that will be happy to pick them up from you. Last edited by BSMStar; 8th March 2006 at 01:19 AM.

8th March 2006, 04:37 PM	#50
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,262	For better Or Worse I'm fairly convinced that this forum itself is a contributing force to driving up prices in most antique weapon selling venues .

10th March 2006, 08:13 PM	#58
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,262	Now That We've Had Our Giggles .... How does this bill currently before my state legislators strike you ? http://www.mass.gov/legis/bills/senate/st01/st01384.htm Hmmm ?

7th March 2006, 06:01 PM	#31
B.I Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 485	ahem! you dont have to be in your twenties to own an mp3 player. .............do you?

7th March 2006, 07:04 PM	#33
Valjhun Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 692	I never understood the fact, why would be owning an antique, not sharp katana submissed to prohibitions when you can buy a lot cheaper chainsaw in the next hardware store... Let's gonna left to the court experst to say wich can make more damage to fellow citizens.. nosense...

7th March 2006, 07:08 PM	#34
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,739	I just do not understand this moral panic about antique weapon collecting, the weapons available at any DIY store or garden center are many. Like religion the weapon is harmless it is the person behind it that is dangerous. Tim.

7th March 2006, 08:04 PM	#36
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	"ETHINOGRAPHIC ART" WILL ALWAYS HAVE WORTH AS LONG AS THERE ARE GALLERIES AND AUCTIONS SUCH AS SOUTHBYS AND CHRISTIES AND ANTIQUE ROADSHOW. MUCH IF NOT MOST OF THEIR SALES ARE FOR INVESTMENT POTENTIAL NOT JUST TO COLLECT BECAUSE YOU ARE INTERESTED AND LOVE THAT KIND OF STUFF. THE ITEMS OFTEN BECOME VALUABLE BECAUSE THE CULTURES WHO PRODUCED THEM ARE EITHER GONE OR DON'T MAKE THINGS NEAR THE QUALITY AS THE OLD ORIGINAL ITEMS. LESS EXAMPLES OF A TYPE OF ITEM LEADS TO HIGHER PRICES DUE TO ITS RARITY SO WELL CRAFTED EXAMPLES SHOULD CONTINUE TO INCREASE. COLLECTORS OF EDGED WEAPONS ARE ODDBALLS COMPARED TO MOST OF THE VERY NUMEROUS REDNECK CULTURE WHO ONLY DISCUSS,SPORTS,WOMEN,POWER TOOLS, CARS, TV PROGRAMS, FISHIN AND HUNTING BUT EVEN THEY OFTEN COLLECT FISHING LURES,GUNS, TOOLS AND SPORTS RELATED STUFF SO I GUESS THEY AREN'T ALL THAT DIFFERENT FROM US AFTER ALL WE ARE A SMALL MINORITY AS FAR AS COLLECTING GOES, THERE ARE MANY MORE STAMP AND COIN COLLECTORS EVEN ROCK AND FOSSIL COLLECTORS OUTNUMBER US. THATS GOOD AS IT LEAVES MORE STUFF FOR EACH OF US BUT AS THE POPULATION CONTINUES TO INCREASE I AM SURE THERE WILL BE PLENTY OF NEW COLLECTORS TO REPLACE US WHEN THEY GET BITTEN BY THE SAME BUG THAT BIT US. WITH THE INTERNET WE WILL ALSO HAVE THE ADVANTAGE OF SELLING TO THE ENTIRE WORLD INSTEAD OF TO THE ONE WEIRD KID AT THE LOCAL GUN SHOW SO OUR POSSIBILITYS OF PASSING ON OUR COLLECTIONS ARE BETTER THAN IN THE PAST.

7th March 2006, 08:28 PM	#38
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,739	I would agree there, but I must say I was not necessarily thinking of acts of violence, we digress and the gods will be upon us. Tim

8th March 2006, 01:47 AM	#42
not2sharp Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 210	If we want to continue to generate interest in our hobby we have to work on getting information out into the public. Unfortunately, there are very few venues dedicated to ethnographic weapon. Every so often we see a stray magazine article, and there are usually a few examples described in a dozen or so words scattered around major museums. But, we do not have a systematic voice, nor a media mechanism which would be attractive to non-collectors. This is an example of what we should try to pull together. http://www.museumofwebism.com/3DGalleryTest/index.htm Imagine a virtual museum dedicated to the study of ethnographic weapons that can be accessible to collectors all around the net and which is populated with many thousands of examples cataloged into dozens of exhibition halls. Such would be the new Stone glossary for the 21th century. Perhaps we should build such a thing and call it the Cameron Stone Museum of Ethnographic Weapondry in his honor. n2s

8th March 2006, 04:30 AM	#43
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Tell me again exactly why i might want to generate interest in others in my hobby? Frankly i find there is quite enough competition for the weapons i collect. There will always be a percentage of the population with an interest in antique edged weapons, it is a part of our human nature to study such things. I don't think we need to create the interest or attempt to turm non-collectors into collectors. Personally, i don't collect keris as a monetary investment (ssshhh! that's not what i tell the wife! ), but for my own personal enjoyment, study and (hopefully) understanding. Sure, it's nice to share in discussion and debate (thank you very much Vikingsword) and if i had children i am sure i would try to interest them in my passion. From time to time i encounter a friend who shares my interest. I think that as i age i will continue to encounter interested younger parties that i feel understand the keris enough to properly care for them and i very possibly might pass some blades along to these folks. I don't plan to have children so the people who recieve these keris will not just be getting an inheritance that that might simply sell off, but something they will prize and want to own. When i go i might very well bequeath the bulk of my collection to a museum (but they have to promise not to paint those little white numbers on them ).

8th March 2006, 02:07 PM	#45
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	n2s, i certainly wasn't arguing against your virtual museum idea, though i don't believe it will create new collectors or inform anyone who might choose to turn some keris into a "nice set of tent pegs". Why would such people bother to look at such a site. To find things like that on the internet you need to have at least enough interest to search it out. My point is that there are and probably always will be a precentage of people interested in this subject. They will continue to collect and find ways to talk about it with others (like your proposed site). But i don't feel the need to inform Joe Beerbottle that that old knife his uncle left him is a courtier's keris from the Mataram kingdom of Java. He is uninterested, not stupid, so he doesn't throw it away, he puts it up on ebay (the worlds marketplace). To him it's old junk that somebody might want. I am fine with him continuing to see it that way. I don't feel any great need to educate him. Now Jimmy Coolkife ( ) Runs across an old keris in the attic that used to belong to grandpa. Old knives interest him so he does a little internet searching. Maybe he ends up at your virtual museum (or here ). I am more than happy to share experience with him and help him work out what he has. But i didn't have to create his interest, it was already there. And believe me, there are quite enough interested parties out there as can be proved by the number of times i've been beat at the auction block. I say start up you virtual museum and i am sure others will join. I would probably get involved myself somewhere along the line. Still, while your vitual museum might not put little white numbers on my blades, it still doesn't solve the original question of this thread, which is what will happen to my PHYSICAL collection when i go. Those were the issues i was addressing.

8th March 2006, 04:05 PM	#49
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	I AGREE THAT THE INTREST IS ALREADY THERE FOR YOU TO BECOME A COLLECTOR IT JUST NEEDS TO BE STIRRED BY SEEING SOMETHING COOL OR INTERESTING. IT WOULD BE SIMPLE TO INCREASE THE PRICE AND DEMAND FOR EDGED WEAPONS BUT NOT THE NUMBER OF REAL COLLECTORS. JUST HAVE A ANTIQUE ROADSHOW AND HAVE LOTS OF PEOPLE WITH SOME TYPE OF EDGED WEAPONS AND SAY THEY ALL FOUND THEM IN ATTICS, GARAGE SALES OR ESTATE SALES AND PAYED $10.00 FOR IT ,THE EXPERT THEN SAYS THIS IS A BLAH BLAH BLAH AND IS WORTH $100000.00 THE BUY IT SELL IT GROUP WHICH VASTLY OUTNUMBER COLLECTORS WOULD SCOUR EVERY NOOK AND CRANNY IN THE COUNTRY, BIDDING WOULD GO CRAZYIER ON EBAY. THEN WOULD BE THE SMART TIME TO SELL OUT OUR COLLECTIONS BUT WHO EVER SAID A TRUE COLLECTOR WAS SMART ENOUGH TO LIKE MONEY MORE THAN HIS COLLECTION THE IDEA OF A VIRTUAL STONES GLOSSARY IS A GOOD ONE AND WAS BROUGHT UP IN THE OLD FORUM POSTS IT MAY HAVE BEEN ONE I STARTED EARLY ON IF YOU WANT TO FIND IT USING THE SEARCH FUNCTION. I THINK CONOGRE WAS GATHERING PICTURES AND INFORMATION ALSO. THERE IS ENOUGH INFORMATION HERE IN THE VIKINGSWORD POSTS TO COMPILE QUITE A LARGE GLOSSARY IF SOMEONE WOULD TAKE ON THE MONUMENTAL TASK OF ORGANIZING IT. THE MEMBERS HERE COULD ALSO ADD MORE TO IT IF NECESSARY I HAVE BEEN COLLECTING INFORMATION FOR YEARS AND AM SURE OTHERS HAVE AS WELL. LARGE DEALERS LIKE ORIENTAL ARMS ARE SURE TO HAVE MORE REFRENCES AND KNOWLEGE THAN ONE WHO JUST COLLECTS, SO THEY MIGHT BE ABLE TO SUPPLY SOME INFORMATION AS TIME WOULD PERMIT. THE BIG ADVANTAGE OF THE INTERNET FORMAT OVER A BOOK IS THAT YOU CAN CONTINUE TO ADD TO THE INFORMATION AND ALSO CORRECT ANY MISTAKES IF BETTER INFORMATION COMES ALONG LATER.

10th March 2006, 01:14 PM	#54
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	Move along, nothing to see here...

10th March 2006, 02:47 PM	#55
not2sharp Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 210	In, the interest of protecting advantageous pricing, this forum should be re-focus to the discussion of ethnographic toilet seats. Now here we have a fine 19th century example from New England..... n2s

10th March 2006, 08:36 PM	#59
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,739	I am a collector to so please do not get me wrong but to brazenly sport weapons in a civilised urban environment you deserve all the trouble you get. I do not go shopping for bread and milk brandishing a Khyber knife and I do not make my home at night with my parang. The bill does not outlaw the possession of a machete it just requires the appropriate common sense about the use and display in public. This is something we collectors usually do naturally and we are unlikely to feel the force of the law. Unfortunately there have been headline grabbing incidents where idiots cause problems. I can think of parallels in other aspects of society but they get away with it. Tim

10th March 2006, 09:21 PM	#60
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,262	Chip , chip , chip ............ I see nothing in the bill relating to brazenly sporting weapons . I do see a wide open definition of 'machete' . I also see an attempt to register a bladed device . Not to mention of course a ahem , yearly registration fee .