Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Ethnographic Weapons
User Name
Password
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 4th September 2020, 06:53 PM   #1
francantolin
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 474
Default wahabite(?) dagger for comments

Hello gentlemen,

I bought this old dagger,
I think it's called a wahabite dagger (?)
I wonder if it is a Yemeni model and how old it can be ?

( for me, late 19th, beginning of the 20th century... )

I found really nice the silver work
the blade is sharp, thick in the middle and seems a forged model .

Interesting too the crescent and stars carved stone ( cornelian ? )

Nice surprise for the hilt, not wood,
I don't think it's rhino but it is made of horn with an interesting wavy structure.

What do you think ?

Kind regards
Attached Images
    
francantolin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th September 2020, 07:00 PM   #2
francantolin
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 474
Default

and the hilt structure
Attached Images
    
francantolin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th September 2020, 06:30 AM   #3
kahnjar1
Member
 
kahnjar1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND
Posts: 2,568
Default Dharia....not Wahabite

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showt...t=dharia+dagger
Please refer to this old link which I think will answer your questions.
Stu
kahnjar1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th September 2020, 09:14 AM   #4
francantolin
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 474
Default

Hello Stu,


Thank you for the link for the Dharia daggers,

sure wahabite weapons doesn't mean a lot !
( but that's what I found on the net ! !! ... )

Yemen origin was not bad,

So if I'm right it's a rashaq hilt with a nafihi blade

Has somebody an advice/informations about age ?,
maybe the scabbard end has been changed/repaired.

Any comments welcomed about the carved stone ?
I find it nice and original but maybe it's common for the dharias ?

What do you think of the hilt/horn ?

Kind regards
francantolin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th September 2020, 11:54 AM   #5
Michael Blalock
Member
 
Michael Blalock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: dc
Posts: 269
Default

The stone with a carving is unusual. It could represent the conjunction of the Moon, Venus and the Pleiades. Not sure of the significance but it does happen from time to time.
Michael Blalock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th September 2020, 07:25 PM   #6
francantolin
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 474
Default

Hello,

Thank you Michael for your message,

It make me think to the Islamic / Ottoman empire flag, ( ore the turkish or tunisian flag )
same crescent but with more stars !...
francantolin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th September 2020, 02:56 AM   #7
kahnjar1
Member
 
kahnjar1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND
Posts: 2,568
Default

The hilt of your Dharia is IMHO SHBEYL not Rashaq. The blade looks to have been filed and could not be called Nafihi as they are rhomboid shape (no central ridge) and highly polished. I would just call it "a blade", probably a locally made Yemeni one.
Ref the scabbard tip,....it looks to me to be a standard original one, though a better pic of it would help.
Stu

Last edited by kahnjar1 : 6th September 2020 at 05:04 AM.
kahnjar1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th September 2020, 08:05 PM   #8
francantolin
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 474
Default

Hello,

Here other pictures of the blade, not that bad for me !
it looks like a Kurdish blade I have,
( maybe a pattern, I have to polish and try to etch it )

Diamond section blade, not symetric, larger on one side so that's what is called a rhomboid for me.

Is Nafihi blade style made like some assymetric Kindjal blades ?
Glad if you put please a picture of a Nafihi blade just for know how it's done.
Attached Images
   
francantolin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th September 2020, 08:06 PM   #9
francantolin
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 474
Default

and the scabbard

Kind regards
Attached Images
  
francantolin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th September 2020, 08:13 PM   #10
kahnjar1
Member
 
kahnjar1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND
Posts: 2,568
Default

Thanks for the extra pics. The blade looks MUCH better in the new pics. Sorry I do not have a pic of a Nafihi blade.
The scabbard end looks to be original.
Stu
kahnjar1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th September 2020, 09:42 PM   #11
Bob A
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 289
Default

Quite attractive silver work on the hilt and top of scabbard. The square piece with the carved carnelian is very reminiscent of some Central Asian jewelry pieces we have. While carnelian is common in this jewelry, I have not seen a carved stone therein.
Bob A is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th September 2020, 07:53 AM   #12
Kubur
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,888
Default

I can't resist to comment!

This is not a stone but a red molded glass.

Here an Iraki khanjar with the same glasses from 1900-1920.

The old Yemeni flag has a moon and a star.

What is the common point between Yemen and Irak? Ottoman occupation


Attached Images
  
Kubur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th September 2020, 04:55 PM   #13
francantolin
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 474
Default

Hello,

Thank you everybody for your message,

Kubur, why not comment ? Merci pour ta réponse ,

I don't think it's the same stuff / glass but exactly the same design,
maybe another mix of molded glass/pâte de verre, less shiny and thicker...

Sure, it's difficult/impossible? to carve the stars with the central dot on a stone
...

Kind regards
francantolin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th September 2020, 06:57 PM   #14
francantolin
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 474
Default

just for share,

this pendant I bought time ago,
coming from turkmenistan
I'm sure this time: with a carved cornelian stone

Kind regards and thank you everybody for your comments
Attached Images
 
francantolin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th September 2020, 08:19 AM   #15
Tatyana Dianova
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 583
Default

The "stone" in question is a Czech made molded glass bead, so called Czech "Hajj" trade bead. Age: early to mid 1900's. Very common in Islamic jewellery as well.
Hajj beads are worn by Muslims who have made the pilgrimage to Mecca, These are made from a gorgeous crimson glass with Arabic writing and symbols.
These beads are made in the Czech Republic (former Czechoslovakia) especially for pilgrims to Mecca.
Only those who have made the journey (the hajj) are entitled to wear them, but the beads sometimes find their way into traders' pouches and are sold to non-pilgrims.
Tatyana Dianova is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th September 2020, 10:00 AM   #16
Kubur
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,888
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatyana Dianova
The "stone" in question is a Czech made molded glass bead, so called Czech "Hajj" trade bead. Age: early to mid 1900's. Very common in Islamic jewellery as well.


Extremely interesting
Do you know if they were designed for the Ottoman / Turkish market too?
(with the flag)
Attached Images
 
Kubur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th September 2020, 11:24 AM   #17
francantolin
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 474
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatyana Dianova
The "stone" in question is a Czech made molded glass bead, so called Czech "Hajj" trade bead. Age: early to mid 1900's. Very common in Islamic jewellery as well.
Hajj beads are worn by Muslims who have made the pilgrimage to Mecca, These are made from a gorgeous crimson glass with Arabic writing and symbols.
These beads are made in the Czech Republic (former Czechoslovakia) especially for pilgrims to Mecca.
Only those who have made the journey (the hajj) are entitled to wear them, but the beads sometimes find their way into traders' pouches and are sold to non-pilgrims.


Didn't know these Hadj beads !

Thanks a lot Tatyana !!!
francantolin is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 03:25 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.