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Old 22nd April 2020, 09:27 AM   #1
Ian
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Default Malay parang ID please

The bottom one is a parang ginah. Can anyone identify the top one in the attached picture?
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Old 22nd April 2020, 10:32 AM   #2
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Hi Ian,

It looks Malay to my eyes so I would be happy with the term klewang or kelewang. I have seen a similar blade before but can't remember where and when.
Maybe Kai or Gustav will know more.

Regards,
Detlef
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Old 22nd April 2020, 04:56 PM   #3
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Hi Ian,

I get an interesting mail from a good friend, my guess was correct, it's from today Southern Thailand, Pattani and or Songkhla but it seems that it was known also in other parts from Thailand since there is provided a name in Thai.

Regards,
Detlef
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Old 22nd April 2020, 05:30 PM   #4
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Hello Ian,

So you can call it "Mit Deng" with it's Thai name or "kelewang" with it's Malay name. Is it yours? Both are very nice!

Regards,
Detlef
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Old 22nd April 2020, 07:09 PM   #5
Ian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sajen
Hello Ian,

So you can call it "Mit Deng" with it's Thai name or "kelewang" with it's Malay name. Is it yours? Both are very nice!

Regards,
Detlef
Thank you Detlef and please thank your friend also.

Yes, both of these are mine. I suspected the top one, which appears to be quite old, was from northern Malaysia or southern Thailand. It certainly has a Malay flavor. Thank you for providing these details.

Ian.
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Old 22nd April 2020, 08:35 PM   #6
A. G. Maisey
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I have no personal knowledge of this object, however, if the overall profile is sufficient to permit classification, perhaps van Zonneveld's listing of "Ladieng" with six supporting references might be considered.

See page 79.
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Old 22nd April 2020, 10:27 PM   #7
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Hello all,

Take it with a grain of salt, but one of the styles of Silat that I study (Silat Suffian Bela Diri, from Brunei, so ethnically Malay), uses a weapon with a near identical blade profile, and simply calls it a "parang."

Have fun,
Leif
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Old 22nd April 2020, 11:24 PM   #8
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Thanks Alan. Yes, there is a resemblance to the ladieng. Appreciate the pointer to that one.


Thanks Leif. Yep it's a parang of some sort.
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Old 23rd April 2020, 10:26 PM   #9
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Quote:
I get an interesting mail from a good friend, my guess was correct, it's from today Southern Thailand, Pattani and or Songkhla but it seems that it was known also in other parts from Thailand since there is provided a name in Thai.

I'm with Detlef - the blades shown seem to belong to the northern Malay culture, indeed.

I'd take the info from the museum labels with a lump of salt: All 4 hilts do look like horn to me (rather than wood as stated). I'd love to get more input from our Thai forumites wether the Thai names may be possibly descriptive only, specious, modern adaptations, or real old names (surely, the Malay and Thai interacted in this region for quite a while).


I'm less sure with the placement of Ian's piece though; some better close-ups may help. The blade may have some age - the hilt seems to be a later replacement as far as I can glean from the pic...

Ian, what is the cross-section of the base of the blade? Full tang (peened)? Dimensions may also help. Thanks!

Regards,
Kai
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Old 24th April 2020, 04:08 AM   #10
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Thanks kai. I will try to find it (my collection is still crated after moving to Australia 18 months ago) and take some more pics plus provide dimensions. In consulting my records further, the seller of the item had called it a golok jambu from northern Malaysia. I have not heard of a golok jambu before.


Ian.
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Old 25th April 2020, 02:46 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kai
I'd love to get more input from our Thai forumites wether the Thai names may be possibly descriptive only, specious, modern adaptations, or real old names (surely, the Malay and Thai interacted in this region for quite a while).


Hello Kai,

Yes, you are correct, there was and is a overlapping influence in this region. Please have a look to the both swords in complete up, both handles are lacquered, a typical "Siam" style and not very common in the Malay regions. So why shall there not a Thai name for this weapons when they seems to have been used also by Buddhist people?

PS: mail you tomorrow!

Regards,
Detlef
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Old 26th April 2020, 12:46 PM   #12
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Thanks, Detlef - take your time!

I assume you refer to the 2 phra-o in your friend‘s pic? Yes, these hilts seem lacquered (as are Ian‘s pieces, too) while the 4 mit deng apparently are not lacquered.

Surface treatment of wood with resin is documented for Malay artisans (cp. Power of Wood) and looks similar to shellac. Also lacquer-like dragon blood is utilized even if more on pommel and scabbard rather than the gripping area.

While it certainly is a possibility, I‘m not yet convinced that such a treatment clearly indicates any Thai origin. Excluding later modifications, it could also hint to a more ceremonial use as opposed to working pieces.

Regards,
Kai
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Old 26th April 2020, 01:55 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kai
I assume you refer to the 2 phra-o in your friend‘s pic? Yes, these hilts seem lacquered (as are Ian‘s pieces, too) while the 4 mit deng apparently are not lacquered.

Surface treatment of wood with resin is documented for Malay artisans (cp. Power of Wood) and looks similar to shellac. Also lacquer-like dragon blood is utilized even if more on pommel and scabbard rather than the gripping area.

While it certainly is a possibility, I‘m not yet convinced that such a treatment clearly indicates any Thai origin. Excluding later modifications, it could also hint to a more ceremonial use as opposed to working pieces.


Hello Kai,

Yes, I refer to the two pieces in up.

Please compare with a Thai enep from my collection. I really think that this is Thai work on both pieces.

Regards,
Detlef
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