Great Qama

OsobistGB · 24th June 2020, 09:28 PM

I agree with your opinion.The kindjal is definitely Persian.

russel · 24th June 2020, 10:08 PM

Stunning!

Oliver Pinchot · 25th June 2020, 05:17 PM

Definitely not Persian.
It's Georgian work c. 1850. There were a number of Tiflis masters who worked in this style. Very nice piece, congrats.

Gonzoadler · 25th June 2020, 07:38 PM

Has anyone pictures of similar pieces here in the forum. I searched in the Internet and in my books and I found only one. This Qama was sold in an auction and later by a dealer (I dont know if it is allowed to send a link). But the blade of this one was in a worse condition, mountings and scabbard were newer than the dagger.
I add some more pictures of my Qama.
Greetings
Robin

Gonzoadler · 25th June 2020, 07:39 PM

More pictures...

mariusgmioc · 25th June 2020, 08:28 PM

Absolutely stunning! Congratulations!

ariel · 26th June 2020, 11:02 AM

Agree with Oliver: Georgian, most likely Tiflis. May be even older: as per Rivkin, solid piece of walrus ivory and “ shoulders” on the handle were in fashion even in the first quarter of the 19 century.

Can you show the Damascus pattern on the flat surfaces of the blade and within the fullers? I would expect to see not “ ribbon Damascus” ( like on Turkish blades) there but the so-called “ Tiflis zigzag”, a very tight Damascus pattern with thin lines. It is frequently found on South Georgian kindjals from Guria.

ariel · 26th June 2020, 03:07 PM

Here are examples of 2 Gurian kindjals with Tiflis Zigzag within the fullers.
Is yours similar?

Interested Party · 26th June 2020, 03:48 PM

Beautiful! Thank you for showing this. Made my day!

Interesting. I noticed a few things. I looks like the blades edges run in a parallel configuration narrowing gently after the midpoint rather than an overall triangular blade shape. Blade decoration on both sides. Hidden tang but riveted with decorative incerts. Thank you Ariel for the term "Shoulders", I will add that to my vocabulary. Nice detail on the carving and koftgari. I saw what appeared to be the incised grove around the decoration on the blade to keep the scratches from the koftgari contained and blend the carving with the overlay technique. Is the golden ground in the carved deer section gilding or koftgari? Also no duckheads surrounding the fullers. As for the scabbard, the final on the chape was very subdued. The koftgari patterns on the collar I thought were unusual. There is a cross hatched cup motif that ties in with the flower below the deer on the blade. I saw what appeared to be zoomorphic shapes, almost proto-duckheads near the throat. Peacocks or waterfowl? Are those oakleaves in the motif in the central section of the collar? Some of the vegetative sub-motifs are abstract to the point of almost being comas. A Circassian influence on the artist? I have always been struck by that pattern's similarity to bronze/iron age Celtic motifs. I couldn't make out much on the suspension ring. I would love to see a detail of the back of the blade.

I hope the form members forgive me for documenting my impressions. I always hope when I write to see other opinions expressed about a subject. What all this means for area of production and date with the experts weighing in all ready I would only show my ignorance to hazard a guess. One question; I am guessing that in this period of production the decoration was by an Armenian craftsman?

Ariel any more information on the tifis zigzag? I consulted the images in Miller and Rivkin but did not find a good example. There are some suspects in Miller but he did not seemed concerned in that kind of detail as he had so much other information he needed to convey.

Interested Party · 26th June 2020, 03:57 PM

Thank you. I see. It looks close to what Hrisoulas would call a star or chevron made be twisting laminated bars in deferent directions and welding. I wonder if the core of this type of blade was different than the edges or was the pattern enhanced by removal of material?

OsobistGB · 27th June 2020, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oliver Pinchot

Definitely not Persian.
It's Georgian work c. 1850. There were a number of Tiflis masters who worked in this style. Very nice piece, congrats.

You may be right that it was probably manufactured in Tiflis.After consulting an expert , I will add that it was made between 1830-1840 in Tiflis , but the Persian influence is obvious!That was the reason to knee-jerk react with its identification.So let us not miss the fact that Eastern Georgia was part of Persia.
It's definitely a classy kindjal!

25th June 2020, 07:38 PM	#4
Gonzoadler Member Join Date: Jun 2020 Location: Germany Posts: 271	Has anyone pictures of similar pieces here in the forum. I searched in the Internet and in my books and I found only one. This Qama was sold in an auction and later by a dealer (I dont know if it is allowed to send a link). But the blade of this one was in a worse condition, mountings and scabbard were newer than the dagger. I add some more pictures of my Qama. Greetings Robin Attached Images

25th June 2020, 07:39 PM	#5
Gonzoadler Member Join Date: Jun 2020 Location: Germany Posts: 271	More pictures... Attached Images

26th June 2020, 03:07 PM	#8
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Here are examples of 2 Gurian kindjals with Tiflis Zigzag within the fullers. Is yours similar? Attached Images

24th June 2020, 09:28 PM	#1
OsobistGB Member Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 95	I agree with your opinion.The kindjal is definitely Persian.

24th June 2020, 10:08 PM	#2
russel Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Tasmania, Australia Posts: 236	Stunning!

25th June 2020, 05:17 PM	#3
Oliver Pinchot Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 467	Definitely not Persian. It's Georgian work c. 1850. There were a number of Tiflis masters who worked in this style. Very nice piece, congrats.

25th June 2020, 08:28 PM	#6
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,911	Absolutely stunning! Congratulations!

26th June 2020, 11:02 AM	#7
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Agree with Oliver: Georgian, most likely Tiflis. May be even older: as per Rivkin, solid piece of walrus ivory and “ shoulders” on the handle were in fashion even in the first quarter of the 19 century. Can you show the Damascus pattern on the flat surfaces of the blade and within the fullers? I would expect to see not “ ribbon Damascus” ( like on Turkish blades) there but the so-called “ Tiflis zigzag”, a very tight Damascus pattern with thin lines. It is frequently found on South Georgian kindjals from Guria.

26th June 2020, 03:48 PM	#9
Interested Party Member Join Date: Dec 2019 Location: Eastern Sierra Posts: 505	Beautiful! Thank you for showing this. Made my day! Interesting. I noticed a few things. I looks like the blades edges run in a parallel configuration narrowing gently after the midpoint rather than an overall triangular blade shape. Blade decoration on both sides. Hidden tang but riveted with decorative incerts. Thank you Ariel for the term "Shoulders", I will add that to my vocabulary. Nice detail on the carving and koftgari. I saw what appeared to be the incised grove around the decoration on the blade to keep the scratches from the koftgari contained and blend the carving with the overlay technique. Is the golden ground in the carved deer section gilding or koftgari? Also no duckheads surrounding the fullers. As for the scabbard, the final on the chape was very subdued. The koftgari patterns on the collar I thought were unusual. There is a cross hatched cup motif that ties in with the flower below the deer on the blade. I saw what appeared to be zoomorphic shapes, almost proto-duckheads near the throat. Peacocks or waterfowl? Are those oakleaves in the motif in the central section of the collar? Some of the vegetative sub-motifs are abstract to the point of almost being comas. A Circassian influence on the artist? I have always been struck by that pattern's similarity to bronze/iron age Celtic motifs. I couldn't make out much on the suspension ring. I would love to see a detail of the back of the blade. I hope the form members forgive me for documenting my impressions. I always hope when I write to see other opinions expressed about a subject. What all this means for area of production and date with the experts weighing in all ready I would only show my ignorance to hazard a guess. One question; I am guessing that in this period of production the decoration was by an Armenian craftsman? Ariel any more information on the tifis zigzag? I consulted the images in Miller and Rivkin but did not find a good example. There are some suspects in Miller but he did not seemed concerned in that kind of detail as he had so much other information he needed to convey.

26th June 2020, 03:57 PM	#10
Interested Party Member Join Date: Dec 2019 Location: Eastern Sierra Posts: 505	Thank you. I see. It looks close to what Hrisoulas would call a star or chevron made be twisting laminated bars in deferent directions and welding. I wonder if the core of this type of blade was different than the edges or was the pattern enhanced by removal of material?