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Old 12th August 2018, 04:52 PM   #1
rickystl
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Default ANOTHER JAZAIL

Hello All

I recently won this Afghan Jazail at auction to add to my collection. I think this makes 4/5 now. Sad. LOL I don't need another Jazail, but had a weak moment and was very attracted to this one. The barrel is 47.5" long and about .59 caliber. It's heavily brass decorated, with what appears to be one original decorated barrel band, some period added later plain ones, and some more recently added ones, with a wire band near the muzzle end. The trigger guard and front sling swival support are decorated iron. It has a correct EIC lock marked HEIST and dated 1799. But what really attracted me to this Jazail is the beautiful fluted barrel, which may be Persian (?) It's fluted 11.5" near the breach and 8" at the muzzle. There is a makers stamp near the breech which is very similar to ones I've seen on Persian barrels. And a beautiful wedding band transition area thats chisiled and engraved. The center portion of the barrel is plain round. The barrel could be older than the rest of the gun. Original decorated ramrod.
So, what needs to be done with this one ? LOL The lock needs some serious attention. The butt cap re-fastened as the nails have come loose. The long tail on the trigger guard needs a bit of straightning and re-nailed. There is some small brass pieces missing at the left side opposite the lock. But I probably won't replace those. But the gun is basically all there. Just needs some attention.
Here are some picture heavy photos. This is exactly the way I received it with no tinkering (yet). Hope you enjoy. And of course any comments appreciated.

Rick
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Old 12th August 2018, 04:54 PM   #2
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MORE PICS.............
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Old 12th August 2018, 04:56 PM   #3
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STILL MORE.........
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Old 12th August 2018, 04:57 PM   #4
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LAST ONES...........
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Old 12th August 2018, 05:39 PM   #5
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rickystl, congratulations. A beautiful jezail.
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Old 12th August 2018, 08:31 PM   #6
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A real beauty Rick. The brass looks to be quite old...certainly not the more yellow color of modern brass.
You say that the name on the lock is HEIST??? Looks to be more letters than that from the unclear pic you have posted. If it IS HEIST then that name does not appear among those in any of the the books I have on English Gunmakers. If the lock IS genuine EIC then the makers name should also be genuine, unless of course it has been placed later....but why would you?
Stu
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Old 12th August 2018, 09:17 PM   #7
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I remember a claim by somebody that the mere presence of brass places the entire item in the 20th century.
This seems to contradict that hypothesis, doesn't it?
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Old 12th August 2018, 09:27 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kahnjar1
A real beauty Rick. The brass looks to be quite old...certainly not the more yellow color of modern brass.
You say that the name on the lock is HEIST??? Looks to be more letters than that from the unclear pic you have posted. If it IS HEIST then that name does not appear among those in any of the the books I have on English Gunmakers. If the lock IS genuine EIC then the makers name should also be genuine, unless of course it has been placed later....but why would you?
Stu

Hi Stu

Thanks for your comments. After closer inspection, it appears to be HIRST.

Rick
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Old 13th August 2018, 02:36 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickystl
Hi Stu

Thanks for your comments. After closer inspection, it appears to be HIRST.

Rick

OK there is a Jonathan Hirst listed as working at Tower Hill, London 1760-1805. The dates are right so it could well be him.
Stu
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Old 13th August 2018, 10:27 AM   #10
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Hi Stu

Yes, HIRST it is. Here is a better pic....

The lock on this gun is in heavily worn condition. I'll get it cleaned and reasonably repaired to working order. I'll re-post so that you can see how worn this lock is. Considering this, it's amazing the rest of the gun is in as good a shape as it is. This gun's seen a lot of campaigns.

Rick
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Old 13th August 2018, 08:40 PM   #11
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It is quite likely that the gun itself is a lot younger than the lock. As we are well aware, tribal gun makers often used parts from older guns to create their items.
Stu
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Old 14th August 2018, 10:38 AM   #12
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Hello,
There are a couple of anomalies I can see in this lock.
1, A lock dated 1799 should have a swan-necked cock rather than ring-necked. The EIC did use ring-necked flat locks, but on pistols rather than long arms. The ring-necked cock they brought in for long arms in about 1813 was a rounded cock.
2, It would be very unusual not to see an inspection mark under the pan.
3, The upper arm of the spring that powers the frizzen or steel should extend backwards well beyond the screw securing the lower arm of the spring. In this lock I wonder if the spring is broken because it looks almost too short to bear on the frizzen when it is brought down.
Regards
Richard
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Old 14th August 2018, 03:36 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard G
Hello,
There are a couple of anomalies I can see in this lock.
1, A lock dated 1799 should have a swan-necked cock rather than ring-necked. The EIC did use ring-necked flat locks, but on pistols rather than long arms. The ring-necked cock they brought in for long arms in about 1813 was a rounded cock.
2, It would be very unusual not to see an inspection mark under the pan.
3, The upper arm of the spring that powers the frizzen or steel should extend backwards well beyond the screw securing the lower arm of the spring. In this lock I wonder if the spring is broken because it looks almost too short to bear on the frizzen when it is brought down.
Regards
Richard

Hi Richard

Thanks for your comments. You are correct in all three of your notes above. I noticed the incorrect, flat hammer before I bid. The rest I couldn't determine from the Auction photos. But I knew enough to tell the lock plate was authentic, and not a locally made copy.
I'll take the lock off and let it soak. Then check it out and see whats all wrong, worn, or missing. LOL Fortunately, in my case, I probably have enough original spare parts to make the lock working and correct. Even a couple of complete EIC locks that are correct to the period.
It appears to have hsd at some point some lock parts replaced with whatever was lying around at the moment. But this does not really surprise me with these Jazails. LOL But one way or the other, I'll get this lock correct.
But for me, the big attraction was that fluted barrel.
Thanks again for your comments.

Rick
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Old 15th August 2018, 12:52 PM   #14
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Hi Rick,

I like this one!
As you say above, it is very nice to get the Persian/Omani barrel!
We do not see many of these on jezails or toradors, odd one, but that's it.
It (The barrel) looks well worn, and has had a lot of use, but it is still a grand specimen.
As for lock with replacement parts;
This is to be expected when we think of where it came from and the conditions it 'lived' under. Brass may be later, I don't know, but the decoration to me appeals more than tons of mother-of -pearl!

Are you going to revive and fire it? ...I think I would.....
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Old 16th August 2018, 02:25 AM   #15
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Very nice, interestingly I had added this to my favorites list but forgot the auction day. the furniture and everything looks original, awesome find.
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Old 16th August 2018, 02:11 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pukka Bundook
Hi Rick,

I like this one!
As you say above, it is very nice to get the Persian/Omani barrel!
We do not see many of these on jezails or toradors, odd one, but that's it.
It (The barrel) looks well worn, and has had a lot of use, but it is still a grand specimen.
As for lock with replacement parts;
This is to be expected when we think of where it came from and the conditions it 'lived' under. Brass may be later, I don't know, but the decoration to me appeals more than tons of mother-of -pearl!

Are you going to revive and fire it? ...I think I would.....

Hi Richard

Thanks for your comments. Yes, this one's seen a lot of use. I haven't had the barrel off yet, but I'm sure it's pre-1800. Considering all the usage, I'm surprised the stock is in such good condition. As mentioned, I'll get the lock corrected in due course.
No, won't make a shooter out of this one. Already have another for shooting. This one's a bit plainer, and was completely restored including a new .54 caliber rifled barrel liner inside the original barrel.

Rick
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Old 16th August 2018, 02:15 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AJ1356
Very nice, interestingly I had added this to my favorites list but forgot the auction day. the furniture and everything looks original, awesome find.

Thanks for your comments. And.....thank you for not bidding against me. LOL
I've also done that before. I plan to bid, and then forget the day of the auction.
But I always get over it when I think of the money I saved. LOL

Rick
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Old 19th August 2018, 10:45 AM   #18
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LOVELY DESIGN ON THIS JEZAIL,WELL DONE
CONGRATS
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Old 28th August 2018, 05:18 PM   #19
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Hello Rick,
I wonder if you have had the lock off yet? The reason I ask is I am wondering if this was originally a matchlock barrel and whether there is any evidence of the pan etc. having been removed?
Best wishes
Richard
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Old 29th August 2018, 02:00 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard G
Hello Rick,
I wonder if you have had the lock off yet? The reason I ask is I am wondering if this was originally a matchlock barrel and whether there is any evidence of the pan etc. having been removed?
Best wishes
Richard

Hi Richard

No, I haven't taken the lock off yet. If I do, I'll start digging in to everything and not finish the other project that I should be able to post this coming weekend. LOL But your very thought occurred to me also. The barrel could have been originally a matchlock. Especially with this fluted barrel. In fact, it is probably likely. But I'll get to it in the next couple weeks and post here again. Good question !!! I'm anxious to know myself.

By the way, the pics of my shooting Jazail above. The barrel on that one was originally matchlock. It was a fun Thread here on the Forum 2/3 years ago.

Rick
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