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Old 28th July 2018, 01:39 PM   #1
Hombre
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Default Dagger!

Should really appreciate opinions about this one....

Total length 25 cm
Blade length 13 cm

Best,
Stefan
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Old 28th July 2018, 04:40 PM   #2
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Syrian souvenier. Post WW2.- bbjw
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Old 28th July 2018, 06:09 PM   #3
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Old 28th July 2018, 08:25 PM   #4
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Hello Stefan,

do a little bit search with the keyword "Majdali" and you will find a lot of information! Can't say how old your one is and if it is worked for the tourist trade but it is possible. Anyway, it's a nice looking dagger with no missing inlays. Motan would be able to tell you more about it.

Regards,
Detlef
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Old 29th July 2018, 07:49 AM   #5
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Talking Majdali dagger

Hello Hombre,

Indeed a Majdali (or Magdali) dagger from the village of Majdal Shams. There have been several threads where this type is discussed, among others, just a few days ago (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=24138). Notice the similarity between yours and BANDOOK's.
Yours is a fine and very typical example, and I am pretty certain that it was made in Majdal Shams, because I have seen very similar ones with the village name engraved in the blade.
There are two general styles in Majdal Shams in this period and this is one of them.
As for the age, it is always difficult. I have seen this type with dates between 1910 an 1940, so, my best guess is in between the wars. Quality deteriorated quickly after WWII, although some good quality daggers were still made.

As for BBJW's remarks, I think that people who know little about a subject should refrain from putting down other people's buys. Surely, for anyone collecting 18th c. Ottoman or similar, ivory gold and wootz, this type of dagger may seem too cheap and late to be serious. Like Koummyas, Shibriyas, Omai khanjars etc., Majdali daggers gradually became tourist souvenirs in later periods and were produced for this market specifically, but tourist pieces do not have the same quality as genuine ones.

Majdali daggers were made from at least the last quarter of the 19th c. and were carried as weapons by locals far beyond their area of production. In the photograph you can see Bedouins carrying Shibriya-like daggers except the second from left, who has a Majdali dagger. It was taken in Jordan before WWI.
In short, a very good find. Daggers of this quality and typical style are becoming rare and expensive too. Don't sell in the next 20 years!
Eytan
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Old 29th July 2018, 07:58 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motan
As for BBJW's remarks, I think that people who know little about a subject should refrain from putting down other people's buys.


Very well said Eytan!
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Old 30th July 2018, 08:51 PM   #7
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Thank you so very much for your help. I really appreciate it!!

Best,
Stefan
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Old 1st August 2018, 09:57 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motan
Hello Hombre,

Indeed a Majdali (or Magdali) dagger from the village of Majdal Shams. There have been several threads where this type is discussed, among others, just a few days ago (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=24138). Notice the similarity between yours and BANDOOK's.
Yours is a fine and very typical example, and I am pretty certain that it was made in Majdal Shams, because I have seen very similar ones with the village name engraved in the blade.
There are two general styles in Majdal Shams in this period and this is one of them.
As for the age, it is always difficult. I have seen this type with dates between 1910 an 1940, so, my best guess is in between the wars. Quality deteriorated quickly after WWII, although some good quality daggers were still made.

As for BBJW's remarks, I think that people who know little about a subject should refrain from putting down other people's buys. Surely, for anyone collecting 18th c. Ottoman or similar, ivory gold and wootz, this type of dagger may seem too cheap and late to be serious. Like Koummyas, Shibriyas, Omai khanjars etc., Majdali daggers gradually became tourist souvenirs in later periods and were produced for this market specifically, but tourist pieces do not have the same quality as genuine ones.

Majdali daggers were made from at least the last quarter of the 19th c. and were carried as weapons by locals far beyond their area of production. In the photograph you can see Bedouins carrying Shibriya-like daggers except the second from left, who has a Majdali dagger. It was taken in Jordan before WWI.
In short, a very good find. Daggers of this quality and typical style are becoming rare and expensive too. Don't sell in the next 20 years!
Eytan

LOVELY PICTURE AND WELL SAID,CHEERS
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Old 8th August 2018, 06:21 AM   #9
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Do such daggers also fit broadly into the category of Jambiya?
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Old 8th August 2018, 10:34 AM   #10
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Hi Helleri,
Yes and no. The question of definitions and names has been discussed many times in this forum and has no clear answers. Do not forget that these are not natural categories like animal families, but they have been invented by collectors.
So, if you mean Jambiya in the sense of Middle Eastern curved dagger - yes.
Locals in Syria call it Khanjar, the generic name for dagger in Arabic.
The term Jambiya is not used outside the Arabian Peninsula and even there, the closest relative of the Yemeni Jambiya is the Omani dagger called Khanjar.
That is my view, and I don't care much about definitions as long as we all understand each other.
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Old 8th August 2018, 06:11 PM   #11
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Understanding what we are talking about is probably the most important thing. Which is why I like specifics like this. What I'm getting is that Jambiya is not cladistic or basal to the family of daggers. But a lay-term which in field context actually refers to one thing in specific dagger. Is that correct? Also is there a clade for these self-evidently related types (If not it may be helpful for us to think of one)?
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Old 10th August 2018, 08:08 AM   #12
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Hi Helleri,
You are right. Unfortunately, I don't have any watertight alternative. Because "groups" of daggers are not actual entities, what you call a specific dagger is, to some degree, a matter of preference (see discussion on Karud in this forum).
In my view, collecting and describing old weapons is a fancy with scientific pretensions (sorry). Even if you find a name for a dagger in old books, you can not assume that the writer knew what he was talking about. Especially older writers used their imagination quite often and copied names from each other without checking. Genuine local names are an important information, but not always known or used by collectors. Therefore, they have their disadvantages too.
I guess that if you say Syrian Jambiya, most collectors will know what you mean and I have nothing against that. I personally would prefer "Middle Eastern curved daggers" as family name because I don't think that many Kurds, Syrians or Berbers will know what Jambiya is.
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