The USA tightening up the knife laws ??

katana · 4th July 2009, 11:51 AM

Hi all,
is the US knife laws going the same way as the UK's ? This could be the 'thin end of the wedge' affecting knife/bladed weapons in America ....and the export from there to other countries

Received an e-mail from another forum ....here is part of it ...

".....Customs' proposal will make criminals of 35.6 million Americans
The definition of a switchblade or automatic knife has been clear and explicit in federal law since 1958. There have been several state court cases in California, Texas, Illiinois and Michigan on the issue of assisted-opening knives. Every judge in every case has ruled they are not switchblades because they do not possess an activating button on the handle.

In fact, AKTI' s bill on the Texas governor's desk now clarified their statute, reaffirming the 50-year old federal definition, and clearly distinguishing one-hand openers and assisted-openers from knives classified as switchblades or automatics.

Be warned . AKTI fears that all folding knives will be at risk. U.S. Customs' proposal indicates it is directed at only the importers of assisted-opening knives. However, the language used in their revocation document is so broad and uses virtually every term ever applied to any knife that opens with one hand. We fear that they are attempting to bypass the will of Congress and that once they succeed in getting assisted-openers defined as switchblades, they could move against all folding knives. These include multi-tools, traditional pocket knives, one-hand openers, and assisted-openers.

If you want to view a video of what AKTI fears about this situation and about your being branded a criminal if you carry a folding knife, go to . http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5KINtCajwI

AKTI's Knife User Data ( http://akti.org/PDFS/AKTI-KnifeUserData.pdf ) documents that at least 35.6 million folding knife users would become de facto criminals if Customs has their way. AKTI's Talking Points ( http://akti.org/PDFS/AKTI-CustomsTalkingPoints.pdf ) tells you in simple language what Customs is really trying to do. Share these documents with other knife owners and your elected representatives at the federal and state level. . When you are write letters or emails on this issue, you can use this data.

AKTI learned, at 5:00 p.m. Eastern time on June 10, 2009, that U.S. Customs has denied the AKTI request for an extension of the comment period......."

Regards David

kronckew · 4th July 2009, 12:30 PM

what the progressive liberals can't get thru the front door, they sneak in thru the back. a shameful act by the govt. & customs. they are also trying to ramrod it thru with as little discussion and fanfare as possible. 1984 'newspeak' in action.

if they can't change the constitution, they change the definitions. soon the only 'arms' you'll be able to keep and bear will be the two issued to you at birth by ms. god.

the big O's storm troopers look on th UK knife and gun laws as model legislation. the fact that they do not work or make sense, and knife and gun crime keep increasing, matters not.

fearn · 4th July 2009, 04:17 PM

That one had me scratching my head, because I actually went and read the customs documents linked to.

So far as I can tell from the document (and remember, I'm NOT a lawyer), customs (and the law) defines switchblades as having a button on the handle causes a spring to open the blade. The design that customs wants to declare a switchblade has it set up so that you open the blade slightly with the usual thumb stud on the blade, and then a spring takes over and snaps the blade out without further work on your part.

Just to play devil's advocate, I can kind of see why customs would want to expand the definition of switchblade. As they note, knife designers have been trying to figure out how to have spring-opened blades without the button that triggers the regulations, and the customs people want to expand regulation of the set of mechanisms that trigger spring opening.

Since none of my knives are spring-opened, it's not clear whether I'm going to have trouble with the new mechanisms. I can open a knife just fine with nothing but a thumb stud. If they make THAT kind of one-handed open illegal, I'll be very unhappy.

Leaving aside arguments about whether switchblades should be regulated at all for a paragraph, what I would suggest is that ANYONE who needs a spring-opened blade for something they're doing, especially as part of work, send a letter to their congresscritter explaining why the new law will mess with them. I suspect that will have more impact than the AKTI letter form, especially with the democratic lawmakers who are currently in the majority.

As for legality of switchblades, I don't think that there's much that's rational about the non-gun weapons laws in the US, and I'm pretty sure lawmakers don't want to deal either. "I'm for law and order, and I think that switchblades should be legal." Right. I'm trying to figure out how any politician could say that with a straight face.

However, if Mr. Smtih, the old farmer in the heartland of America, needs that one-handed spring assist to open his knife because of his arthritic hands (and he can't retire, because he lost it all in the financial crisis), and he needs his knife to open the seed bags to plant his fields, that's a much better argument. Mr. Smith needs his spring-opened knife for his everyday work.

In any case, the AKTI links to the customs documents, and I'd be much happier if someone who is a lawyer will go through them and figure out what it is customs is trying to outlaw, and how many knives it will actually affect. If they're going to outlaw any one-handed opening mechanism, spring or no spring, that's a really good reason to protest. If they're trying to expand the list of prohibited mechanisms for spring-assisted opening, it would be good to get an idea of how many knife designs would actually be affected.

Best,

F

kronckew · 4th July 2009, 04:36 PM

i think that the main problem is that they DO ultimately want to ban all one-handed opening knives, then they can start on all folding knives next. today assisted opening, tomorrow ones with thumb studs, the day after the ones with....

by setting a precedent that an agency like the customs can effectively make it's own laws by redefining the semantics in defiance of previous judicial case history and judgements, we are going down a slippery slope. it's the death of a thousand cuts by stealth rather than a more obvious law passed by congress, or even an executive order. once you start allowing customs to make up regulations based on partisan political considerations you're stuffed, they already have their foot in the door...

customs of course only is involved in the foreign import/export of these items, but if they get away with it, what's to stop the post office or other agencies. of course the mfg. who currently import such things could set up a factory inside the U.S. to make them, creating more non-outsourced jobs. OSHA or some other agency would probably then ban them by regulation.

the price of freedom is eternal vigilance

fearn · 4th July 2009, 06:21 PM

Hi Kronckew,

I'll take the devil's advocate position again. As I understand the situation (based on the custom service's own documents), the current switchblade definition has stood up in court repeatedly. Oddly enough, they can make the slippery slope argument too. Right now, you can make a spring-opened knife that's the functional equivalent of a switchblade, except that it's not opened by a button on the handle. Why shouldn't switchblades be legal as well?

If you're worried about the being allowed to carry, I think it's important to educate people that a knife is a tool as well as a weapon. The fact that I'm carrying one poses precisely no threat to their health or well-being (why should I tell them how actively I'll defend myself if attacked?), and that my knife is useful to them during daily life? That's politics too.

There are some things I'm quite honestly bugged with AKTI about with this campaign:

--One is that it's not clear (to me, at least) whether all folding knives are on the block, or just this one type of not-quite-a-switchblade. How many knives are affected?
--Nobody's polling the US to find out how many knife owners are out there. Starting with all first responders, boy scouts, anyone working in a rural area (including a lot of environmentalists and other liberals), any tech worker (at least the blade on his multi-tool), I'd guess that we're talking about a large majority of the adult population. Outlaw all folding knives? Right. AKTI needs to point out how many people own the knives they're worried about.
--What's the upside for a politician supporting the AKTI? After all, their opponents are going to accuse them of being "soft on switchblades" if they support AKTI and all the customs law is about is the definition of a switchblade.

This is why I'd suggest that AKTI needs to talk about numbers and to put a face on this issue. Everybody owns knives, right? And given the aging population and, in the current economic unpleasantness, there are old people out there who need folding knives that are easy on their arthritic hands to open. If customs is taking the knife from Mr. Smith's crippled hands because they're worried about the mechanism, that's a really good argument for a politician.

Right now, it's just us "weirdo hobbyists" and our "dangerous" fixation on knives who are asking for protection.

Best,

F

Spunjer · 4th July 2009, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by katana

Hi all,
is the US knife laws going the same way as the UK's ?

Regards David

nah, i really doubt it, bro. just a bunch of paranoid conspiracy theorists making a mountain out of a molehill, lol

fearn · 4th July 2009, 09:55 PM

Happy 4th, Spunjer! Gotta have some fireworks, right?

F

Rick · 4th July 2009, 10:17 PM

Some of the best Custom auto knife makers are in Rhode Island .

Autos are legal to carry in FLA .

Spunjer · 5th July 2009, 02:26 PM

belated happy 4th, fearn

Lew · 6th July 2009, 01:12 AM

The economy is in the toilet and this is what our politians and agencies are wasting our time with!

I had better stock up now! lol.

BBJW · 6th July 2009, 03:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LOUIEBLADES

The economy is in the toilet and this is what our politians and agencies are wasting our time with!

I had better stock up now! lol.

Yes the economy is in the toilet and our politicians all seem to be narcissistic and dishonest. The country is falling apart literally (try to catch the History Channels "The Crumbling of America") and they worry about pocket knives. We are on track to becoming a 3rd world sh*t hole. Everyone should give Paine's "Common Sense" or Beck's a read. God help us.

bbjw

4th July 2009, 11:51 AM	#1
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	The USA tightening up the knife laws ?? Hi all, is the US knife laws going the same way as the UK's ? This could be the 'thin end of the wedge' affecting knife/bladed weapons in America ....and the export from there to other countries Received an e-mail from another forum ....here is part of it ... ".....Customs' proposal will make criminals of 35.6 million Americans The definition of a switchblade or automatic knife has been clear and explicit in federal law since 1958. There have been several state court cases in California, Texas, Illiinois and Michigan on the issue of assisted-opening knives. Every judge in every case has ruled they are not switchblades because they do not possess an activating button on the handle. In fact, AKTI' s bill on the Texas governor's desk now clarified their statute, reaffirming the 50-year old federal definition, and clearly distinguishing one-hand openers and assisted-openers from knives classified as switchblades or automatics. Be warned . AKTI fears that all folding knives will be at risk. U.S. Customs' proposal indicates it is directed at only the importers of assisted-opening knives. However, the language used in their revocation document is so broad and uses virtually every term ever applied to any knife that opens with one hand. We fear that they are attempting to bypass the will of Congress and that once they succeed in getting assisted-openers defined as switchblades, they could move against all folding knives. These include multi-tools, traditional pocket knives, one-hand openers, and assisted-openers. If you want to view a video of what AKTI fears about this situation and about your being branded a criminal if you carry a folding knife, go to . http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5KINtCajwI AKTI's Knife User Data ( http://akti.org/PDFS/AKTI-KnifeUserData.pdf ) documents that at least 35.6 million folding knife users would become de facto criminals if Customs has their way. AKTI's Talking Points ( http://akti.org/PDFS/AKTI-CustomsTalkingPoints.pdf ) tells you in simple language what Customs is really trying to do. Share these documents with other knife owners and your elected representatives at the federal and state level. . When you are write letters or emails on this issue, you can use this data. AKTI learned, at 5:00 p.m. Eastern time on June 10, 2009, that U.S. Customs has denied the AKTI request for an extension of the comment period......." Regards David

4th July 2009, 12:30 PM	#2
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,150	what the progressive liberals can't get thru the front door, they sneak in thru the back. a shameful act by the govt. & customs. they are also trying to ramrod it thru with as little discussion and fanfare as possible. 1984 'newspeak' in action. if they can't change the constitution, they change the definitions. soon the only 'arms' you'll be able to keep and bear will be the two issued to you at birth by ms. god. the big O's storm troopers look on th UK knife and gun laws as model legislation. the fact that they do not work or make sense, and knife and gun crime keep increasing, matters not. Last edited by kronckew; 4th July 2009 at 12:41 PM.

4th July 2009, 04:17 PM	#3
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	That one had me scratching my head, because I actually went and read the customs documents linked to. So far as I can tell from the document (and remember, I'm NOT a lawyer), customs (and the law) defines switchblades as having a button on the handle causes a spring to open the blade. The design that customs wants to declare a switchblade has it set up so that you open the blade slightly with the usual thumb stud on the blade, and then a spring takes over and snaps the blade out without further work on your part. Just to play devil's advocate, I can kind of see why customs would want to expand the definition of switchblade. As they note, knife designers have been trying to figure out how to have spring-opened blades without the button that triggers the regulations, and the customs people want to expand regulation of the set of mechanisms that trigger spring opening. Since none of my knives are spring-opened, it's not clear whether I'm going to have trouble with the new mechanisms. I can open a knife just fine with nothing but a thumb stud. If they make THAT kind of one-handed open illegal, I'll be very unhappy. Leaving aside arguments about whether switchblades should be regulated at all for a paragraph, what I would suggest is that ANYONE who needs a spring-opened blade for something they're doing, especially as part of work, send a letter to their congresscritter explaining why the new law will mess with them. I suspect that will have more impact than the AKTI letter form, especially with the democratic lawmakers who are currently in the majority. As for legality of switchblades, I don't think that there's much that's rational about the non-gun weapons laws in the US, and I'm pretty sure lawmakers don't want to deal either. "I'm for law and order, and I think that switchblades should be legal." Right. I'm trying to figure out how any politician could say that with a straight face. However, if Mr. Smtih, the old farmer in the heartland of America, needs that one-handed spring assist to open his knife because of his arthritic hands (and he can't retire, because he lost it all in the financial crisis), and he needs his knife to open the seed bags to plant his fields, that's a much better argument. Mr. Smith needs his spring-opened knife for his everyday work. In any case, the AKTI links to the customs documents, and I'd be much happier if someone who is a lawyer will go through them and figure out what it is customs is trying to outlaw, and how many knives it will actually affect. If they're going to outlaw any one-handed opening mechanism, spring or no spring, that's a really good reason to protest. If they're trying to expand the list of prohibited mechanisms for spring-assisted opening, it would be good to get an idea of how many knife designs would actually be affected. Best, F

4th July 2009, 04:36 PM	#4
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,150	i think that the main problem is that they DO ultimately want to ban all one-handed opening knives, then they can start on all folding knives next. today assisted opening, tomorrow ones with thumb studs, the day after the ones with.... by setting a precedent that an agency like the customs can effectively make it's own laws by redefining the semantics in defiance of previous judicial case history and judgements, we are going down a slippery slope. it's the death of a thousand cuts by stealth rather than a more obvious law passed by congress, or even an executive order. once you start allowing customs to make up regulations based on partisan political considerations you're stuffed, they already have their foot in the door... customs of course only is involved in the foreign import/export of these items, but if they get away with it, what's to stop the post office or other agencies. of course the mfg. who currently import such things could set up a factory inside the U.S. to make them, creating more non-outsourced jobs. OSHA or some other agency would probably then ban them by regulation. the price of freedom is eternal vigilance

4th July 2009, 06:21 PM	#5
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Hi Kronckew, I'll take the devil's advocate position again. As I understand the situation (based on the custom service's own documents), the current switchblade definition has stood up in court repeatedly. Oddly enough, they can make the slippery slope argument too. Right now, you can make a spring-opened knife that's the functional equivalent of a switchblade, except that it's not opened by a button on the handle. Why shouldn't switchblades be legal as well? If you're worried about the being allowed to carry, I think it's important to educate people that a knife is a tool as well as a weapon. The fact that I'm carrying one poses precisely no threat to their health or well-being (why should I tell them how actively I'll defend myself if attacked?), and that my knife is useful to them during daily life? That's politics too. There are some things I'm quite honestly bugged with AKTI about with this campaign: --One is that it's not clear (to me, at least) whether all folding knives are on the block, or just this one type of not-quite-a-switchblade. How many knives are affected? --Nobody's polling the US to find out how many knife owners are out there. Starting with all first responders, boy scouts, anyone working in a rural area (including a lot of environmentalists and other liberals), any tech worker (at least the blade on his multi-tool), I'd guess that we're talking about a large majority of the adult population. Outlaw all folding knives? Right. AKTI needs to point out how many people own the knives they're worried about. --What's the upside for a politician supporting the AKTI? After all, their opponents are going to accuse them of being "soft on switchblades" if they support AKTI and all the customs law is about is the definition of a switchblade. This is why I'd suggest that AKTI needs to talk about numbers and to put a face on this issue. Everybody owns knives, right? And given the aging population and, in the current economic unpleasantness, there are old people out there who need folding knives that are easy on their arthritic hands to open. If customs is taking the knife from Mr. Smith's crippled hands because they're worried about the mechanism, that's a really good argument for a politician. Right now, it's just us "weirdo hobbyists" and our "dangerous" fixation on knives who are asking for protection. Best, F

4th July 2009, 09:55 PM	#7
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Happy 4th, Spunjer! Gotta have some fireworks, right? F

4th July 2009, 10:17 PM	#8
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,263	Some of the best Custom auto knife makers are in Rhode Island . Autos are legal to carry in FLA .

5th July 2009, 02:26 PM	#9
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	belated happy 4th, fearn

6th July 2009, 01:12 AM	#10
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	The economy is in the toilet and this is what our politians and agencies are wasting our time with! I had better stock up now! lol.