Tabar Axe(Please help with translation)

nalan1978 · 26th September 2012, 02:50 PM

I long ago won its bid

here are the pics

Dom · 27th September 2012, 06:59 PM

Hi nalan
I confess my total ignorance for this kind of weapon

I can just enjoy its aesthetic side, it's seems pretty
the translation by us, it's not possible, it is not written in Arabic
very sorry for you

à +

Dom

estcrh · 27th September 2012, 07:13 PM

This item was just sold on ebay here is the description.

"Old Indian warrior Tabar Axe
All Steel Indian Tabarzin Axe from North India Region.
Axe has crescent shaped blade engraved in Islamic scripts and all steel axe is damscened in gold.
Do not know how old it is or much about this other than what I can find on the internet.
This is from my father in laws 60+ year collection.
From what I can find these are hard to find and expensive."

Maybe this will help with identifying the type of writing.

Dom · 28th September 2012, 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by estcrh

Axe has crescent shaped blade engraved in Islamic scripts

Hi estcrh
I'd have to disagree with that ... it can not be Islamic inscriptions
because at this time would be understood by a person reading Arabic
and ... this is not the case ... apparently

à +

Dom

estcrh · 28th September 2012, 04:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dom

Hi estcrh
I'd have to disagree with that ... it can not be Islamic inscriptions
because at this time would be understood by a person reading Arabic
and ... this is not the case ... apparently

à +

Dom

Dom you are right, I thought that this part may be of help

"Old Indian warrior Tabar Axe
All Steel Indian Tabarzin Axe from North India Region"

I was thinking that if not Arabic then perhaps an Indian dialect?, I should have been more accurate in my meaning.

nalan1978 · 28th September 2012, 05:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dom

Hi nalan
I confess my total ignorance for this kind of weapon

I can just enjoy its aesthetic side, it's seems pretty
the translation by us, it's not possible, it is not written in Arabic
very sorry for you

à +

Dom

Thank you for your attention
I personally think that this ax is from Central Asia Turks tribal
Of course, in medieval China often have similar appearance

Battara · 28th September 2012, 05:18 AM

There is the possibility that it is written in Urdu, which is an Indian dialect written in Arabic script.

AJ1356 · 28th September 2012, 06:13 AM

It is not Indian but rather it is Persian. Tabar, in Farsi means Axe, tabar zin would be a axe that one hangs on the saddle of a horse for war. This seems to be nicely made with lots of gold work done to it, maybe ceremonial. The text is Persian, I'll translate it maybe at a later time.
I agree with DOM as far as "Islamic" is concerned. To call something Islamic The writting not only HAS to be Arabic but Arabic from the Holy Qur'an.

Atlantia · 8th December 2012, 01:13 PM

Nalan,

Very nice indeed! I would call it a saddle axe and also suggest Persian (greater Iran 19thC) although perhaps there is a possibility that central Asia is an option?
Are the metal tube covers on the shaft bronze or steel? Can you check with a magnet if possible?
I have one with a similarly constructed handle but more classicallly 'tabar' shaped hammer back head (I think mine is Indo-Persian).
I found that the gold koftgari on mine has worn much more quickly on the bronze/copper alloy of the shaft covers than the hard steel of the head.
On mine the shaft is a woden core with similar metal covers top and bottom and the central section is wound with string then has thin leather shrunk over it to produce a grip. The same I presume as yours?

ATB
Gene

Atlantia · 10th December 2012, 12:14 AM

Just to add......

These decorated 'Tabarzin' must have looked amazing when new... if a little 'sudden'.... even gauche!
Clearly not 'arsenal' or 'munitions' grade pieces. I presume they were more 'knightly' than 'soldier' weapons?

Nalan,
Were the metal parts of the shaft of yours originally covered in koftgari?
The binding on mine which I've now investigated, seems to be a thin 'skin' shrunk over string binding. It'e very dry after 200 years and the closest comparison that I can make is rexine. Not sure what the base is, vellum, linen, paper?
Will you clean yours up at all?
It would be interesting to see if the head on yours is crucible steel?
Usually the 'wootz' heads are mostly exposed like the fine example below from Artzi's site.
I find myself wondering if your's which would have been almost completely covered in gold overlay would have been wootz?
I guess probobly so, but I also guess that the pattern would be non manipulated?

Anyway, it's a very interesting example. The back spike and head shape is unusual.

26th September 2012, 02:50 PM	#1
nalan1978 Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 19	Tabar Axe(Please help with translation) I long ago won its bid here are the pics Attached Images

8th December 2012, 01:13 PM	#9
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Nalan, Very nice indeed! I would call it a saddle axe and also suggest Persian (greater Iran 19thC) although perhaps there is a possibility that central Asia is an option? Are the metal tube covers on the shaft bronze or steel? Can you check with a magnet if possible? I have one with a similarly constructed handle but more classicallly 'tabar' shaped hammer back head (I think mine is Indo-Persian). I found that the gold koftgari on mine has worn much more quickly on the bronze/copper alloy of the shaft covers than the hard steel of the head. On mine the shaft is a woden core with similar metal covers top and bottom and the central section is wound with string then has thin leather shrunk over it to produce a grip. The same I presume as yours? ATB Gene Last edited by Atlantia; 8th December 2012 at 06:46 PM.

10th December 2012, 12:14 AM	#10
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Just to add...... These decorated 'Tabarzin' must have looked amazing when new... if a little 'sudden'.... even gauche! Clearly not 'arsenal' or 'munitions' grade pieces. I presume they were more 'knightly' than 'soldier' weapons? Nalan, Were the metal parts of the shaft of yours originally covered in koftgari? The binding on mine which I've now investigated, seems to be a thin 'skin' shrunk over string binding. It'e very dry after 200 years and the closest comparison that I can make is rexine. Not sure what the base is, vellum, linen, paper? Will you clean yours up at all? It would be interesting to see if the head on yours is crucible steel? Usually the 'wootz' heads are mostly exposed like the fine example below from Artzi's site. I find myself wondering if your's which would have been almost completely covered in gold overlay would have been wootz? I guess probobly so, but I also guess that the pattern would be non manipulated? Anyway, it's a very interesting example. The back spike and head shape is unusual. Attached Images Last edited by Atlantia; 10th December 2012 at 12:35 AM.

27th September 2012, 06:59 PM	#2
Dom Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Paris (FR*) Cairo (EG) Posts: 1,142	Hi nalan I confess my total ignorance for this kind of weapon I can just enjoy its aesthetic side, it's seems pretty the translation by us, it's not possible, it is not written in Arabic very sorry for you à + Dom

27th September 2012, 07:13 PM	#3
estcrh Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: USA Posts: 1,497	This item was just sold on ebay here is the description. "Old Indian warrior Tabar Axe All Steel Indian Tabarzin Axe from North India Region. Axe has crescent shaped blade engraved in Islamic scripts and all steel axe is damscened in gold. Do not know how old it is or much about this other than what I can find on the internet. This is from my father in laws 60+ year collection. From what I can find these are hard to find and expensive." Maybe this will help with identifying the type of writing.

28th September 2012, 05:18 AM	#7
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,139	There is the possibility that it is written in Urdu, which is an Indian dialect written in Arabic script.

28th September 2012, 06:13 AM	#8
AJ1356 Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Nashville Posts: 314	It is not Indian but rather it is Persian. Tabar, in Farsi means Axe, tabar zin would be a axe that one hangs on the saddle of a horse for war. This seems to be nicely made with lots of gold work done to it, maybe ceremonial. The text is Persian, I'll translate it maybe at a later time. I agree with DOM as far as "Islamic" is concerned. To call something Islamic The writting not only HAS to be Arabic but Arabic from the Holy Qur'an.