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Old 22nd September 2020, 12:25 PM   #1
A. G. Maisey
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Way it worked is this Mickey:-

the jamprahan sarung was for religious people (agamawan)

the jamprahan was paired with the gagang kusia

the Brahmin caste is the caste that is concerned with religion

if we are looking for God-botherers we look amongst the Brahmins, because this is where we will find the agamawan.

The "insect with tusks" is Neka's description, not mine.
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Old 22nd September 2020, 01:00 PM   #2
Gustav
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Jasper J.E., who started to gather his information at the very beginning of 1900'ties and published his book with Mas Pirngadie in 1930, states, that Kocet-Kocetan hilt was called Kusia in Klungkung.

He writes also, this hilt from could be made from black wood with golden ornaments or entirely in gold, made with the same process like Togog hilts.

Interestingly, the drawing of Nieuwenkamp from 1907 shows both forms, which are different indeed. In an older thread Fearn identified these forms as the pupa and adult beetle, two different stages of the same insect.

Accuracy of a drawing and of information generally can be always questioned.
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Old 22nd September 2020, 01:50 PM   #3
Jean
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gustav
Interestingly, the drawing of Nieuwenkamp from 1907 shows both forms, which are different indeed. In an older thread Fearn identified these forms as the pupa and adult beetle, two different stages of the same insect.
Pics of 2 different forms of hilt kocet-kocetan, and there are even more....
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Old 22nd September 2020, 02:04 PM   #4
Gustav
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jean
Pics of 2 different forms of hilt kocet-kocetan, and there are even more....
Now - of course, there are a plenty of them.

What interests me is Bali before 1908.
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Old 22nd September 2020, 04:33 PM   #5
Anthony G.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gustav
Now - of course, there are a plenty of them.

What interests me is Bali before 1908.
Hi, why so before 1908?
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Old 22nd September 2020, 08:33 PM   #6
Gustav
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1908 happened the Puputan in Klungkung, the last independent Balinese kingdom. After that many things changed, and some of these things subsequently had influence on Keris dress.
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Old 22nd September 2020, 10:26 PM   #7
A. G. Maisey
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Yep, Bali post 1908 was a different place to Bali pre-1908.

That is a certain.

And again pre-1950 and post 1952, and then post 1984. But the changes in this later scenario were more window dressing to satisfy the Ministry of Religion.

Yes Jean, Djelengga considered Kusia & Kocet-kocetan to be the same, just different names for the same hilt, as did I myself before KBB.

Something I have noticed in recent years, say, the last 25 years or so, is that a lot of "knowledge" is making an appearance that back in the 1970's & 1980's not even the most highly regarded of keris experts were aware of. Amazing how we discover things as time goes by. Things that have been forgotten, or maybe never even existed in times past.

Actually the two names for these hilts do exist in Balinese --- I just looked them up, I am not fluent in Balinese. Kocetkocetan is a species of beetle; kusiya is to be pale with exhaustion.

Probably the way I look after listening to or becoming involved in lengthy discussions about names of objects in Indonesian languages & places.
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Old 23rd September 2020, 01:24 AM   #8
Anthony G.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gustav
1908 happened the Puputan in Klungkung, the last independent Balinese kingdom. After that many things changed, and some of these things subsequently had influence on Keris dress.

Noted with thanks.
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Old 27th September 2020, 06:13 PM   #9
kai
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Hello Gustav,

Quote:
Interestingly, the drawing of Nieuwenkamp from 1907 shows both forms, which are different indeed. In an older thread Fearn identified these forms as the pupa and adult beetle, two different stages of the same insect.
These are longicorn beetles (family Cerambycidae). I believe Nieuwenkamp just shows the pupa and the imago (adult) for illustrative purposes since the adult beetles are/were fairly well known to the general audience in Europe while coming across a pupa is certainly much rarer.

Both hilts in the figure clearly represent the pupa stage (and metamorphosis/transition seems to be the main religious message associated with this style of hilt): Only in the pupa stage does the wing stick out between the second and third pair of legs (i.e. partly covering the latter) and this is a consistent feature of every hilt of decent craftsmanship that I've come across. The antennae (the long "horns" of the beetle) of a cerambicyd pupa can be more or less curled (their relative length also depends on the species) and their head is very similar to the adult. [Just search for Cerambycidae AND pupa for some pics!]

Moreover, adult beetles spread their antennae to the side or in front - not backwards (the drawing was probably taken from an entomological museum specimen with folded back antennae for handling/security/space reasons).

Thus, I assume that differences in style of these hilts is not based on any biological difference but rather cultural developments and possibly loss of knowledge with later examples. There certainly seems to be a tendency with heads kinda resembling horses(?) more and more (including added non-insect ears and facial features).

Or is this another symbolism seeping in?

Regards,
Kai
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