An Interesting 15th C. Nuremberg Mail Shirt Fragment With Mark

Matchlock · 7th April 2012, 12:30 PM

This fragment of a 15th c. mail shirt, in excavated condition, was sold at a South German auction a few years ago.
What is most remarkable is that it retained a brass seal struck with the Nuremberg proof mark.

Best,
Michael

cornelistromp · 7th April 2012, 01:49 PM

it is said it has been found in Bott germany.

Matchlock · 7th April 2012, 02:01 PM

A town or place named Bott does not exist in Germany.

Did you mean Bottrop?

m

Swordfish · 7th April 2012, 02:37 PM

Good find! With an experts eye!
Do you have acquired it?
Unfortunately its clearly a fake!
I have not seen it in reality, but no doubt. Two of the holes of the shield have no rings, the third is broken, and the fourth surely as well.
The same mark was on a mail fragment of clearly different shape, sold at the same auction house October 2009 lot 421.
The same mark again on a complete shirt, sold October 2008 lot 388 at the same auction house.
The mark without mail fragment, described as genuine, is actually for sale in the USA.

Best

cornelistromp · 7th April 2012, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swordfish

Good find! With an experts eye!
Do you have acquired it?
Unfortunately its clearly a fake!
I have not seen it in reality, but no doubt. Two of the holes of the shield have no rings, the third is broken, and the fourth surely as well.
The same mark was on a mail fragment of clearly different shape, sold at the same auction house October 2009 lot 421.
The same mark again on a complete shirt, sold October 2008 lot 388 at the same auction house.
The mark without mail fragment, described as genuine, is actually for sale in the USA.

Best

good expert eye swordfish!
the mark with and without the mail post #1 and#2 are one and the same! and still for sale in the USA.
I can not judge form the pictures if it is real or not, can you?

best,

Swordfish · 7th April 2012, 03:28 PM

When I saw it the first time (in the auction catalogue), I was immediately sceptic about it. The whole style looked not good to me. The arms and the surrounding dots are handmade. If the city of Nuremberg used such a mark, it would surely have been stamped with a punch. If it is an original fragment, all four holes or at least 3 should retain the original rings, not broken, and the rivetting intact.

Best

7th April 2012, 12:30 PM	#1
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	An Interesting 15th C. Nuremberg Mail Shirt Fragment With Mark This fragment of a 15th c. mail shirt, in excavated condition, was sold at a South German auction a few years ago. What is most remarkable is that it retained a brass seal struck with the Nuremberg proof mark. Best, Michael Attached Images Last edited by Matchlock; 7th April 2012 at 02:03 PM.

7th April 2012, 01:49 PM	#2
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,057	it is said it has been found in Bott germany. Attached Images

7th April 2012, 02:01 PM	#3
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	A town or place named Bott does not exist in Germany. Did you mean Bottrop? m

7th April 2012, 02:37 PM	#4
Swordfish Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 129	Good find! With an experts eye! Do you have acquired it? Unfortunately its clearly a fake! I have not seen it in reality, but no doubt. Two of the holes of the shield have no rings, the third is broken, and the fourth surely as well. The same mark was on a mail fragment of clearly different shape, sold at the same auction house October 2009 lot 421. The same mark again on a complete shirt, sold October 2008 lot 388 at the same auction house. The mark without mail fragment, described as genuine, is actually for sale in the USA. Best

7th April 2012, 03:28 PM	#6
Swordfish Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 129	When I saw it the first time (in the auction catalogue), I was immediately sceptic about it. The whole style looked not good to me. The arms and the surrounding dots are handmade. If the city of Nuremberg used such a mark, it would surely have been stamped with a punch. If it is an original fragment, all four holes or at least 3 should retain the original rings, not broken, and the rivetting intact. Best