A Cretan dagger with a turkish inscription

eftihis · 29th April 2021, 10:42 PM

This is a cretan dagger with a turkish inscription that was auctioned a couple of years ago. Most of cretan daggers have islamic dates on them, but i have never seen a long inscription like this one.

Kubur · 30th April 2021, 06:29 AM

Hi my friend,

Very beautiful dagger
I have an Enveriye Dagger and the script is very similar, on two lines.
But yours is 1284 and not 1900-1920ties.
I hope Kwiatek could provide you a translation.

kwiatek · 5th May 2021, 09:16 PM

It opens with the beginning of Qur'an 61:13, "Help from God and a speedy victory". This is followed by the opening lines of the Dala'il al-Khayrat, a collection of prayers in praise of the Prophet Muhammad by the Moroccan shaykh al-Jazuli, that was v. popular all over the Ottoman Empire, as well as what is presumably the name of the owner - "Praise to God who has guided us to faith and Islam and peace and blessings upon our master Muhammad the best of mankind. Praise be to God and I am grateful to Him. Sayyid Ahmad al-Junaydi". This Arabic text has mistakes in it that are typical of a Turkish speaker!

As Kubur has pointed out, the date is 1284 / 1867-8

eftihis · 6th May 2021, 02:44 PM

Τhank you so much kwiatek!
In Crete there was never a colonisation of Muslims from mainland Turkey after the ottoman conquest. Instead, we had the change of faith of maybe 40% of the Christian population. These became the Cretan muslims or the "Turcocretans", fearsome in battle and firm supporters of the Ottoman rule. However they never became either "proper" muslims (they continued to eat pork and drink wine), neither "proper" Turks! They continued to speak only the Cretan dialect of the Greek language. They learned the turkish language after the population exchange with Turkey in 1924, were the last ones left for Turkey, in exchange with Greek refuges from Asia minor. Some of their descentents still understand Greek today. So in addition to the difficulty of translating the meaning from Arabic to Turkish, here we had the additional difficulty that the meaning had to be communicated to the muslim owner in Greek!

29th April 2021, 10:42 PM	#1
eftihis Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Chania Crete Greece Posts: 500	A Cretan dagger with a turkish inscription This is a cretan dagger with a turkish inscription that was auctioned a couple of years ago. Most of cretan daggers have islamic dates on them, but i have never seen a long inscription like this one. Attached Images

30th April 2021, 06:29 AM	#2
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	Hi my friend, Very beautiful dagger I have an Enveriye Dagger and the script is very similar, on two lines. But yours is 1284 and not 1900-1920ties. I hope Kwiatek could provide you a translation.

5th May 2021, 09:16 PM	#3
kwiatek Member Join Date: May 2019 Posts: 153	It opens with the beginning of Qur'an 61:13, "Help from God and a speedy victory". This is followed by the opening lines of the Dala'il al-Khayrat, a collection of prayers in praise of the Prophet Muhammad by the Moroccan shaykh al-Jazuli, that was v. popular all over the Ottoman Empire, as well as what is presumably the name of the owner - "Praise to God who has guided us to faith and Islam and peace and blessings upon our master Muhammad the best of mankind. Praise be to God and I am grateful to Him. Sayyid Ahmad al-Junaydi". This Arabic text has mistakes in it that are typical of a Turkish speaker! As Kubur has pointed out, the date is 1284 / 1867-8

6th May 2021, 02:44 PM	#4
eftihis Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Chania Crete Greece Posts: 500	Τhank you so much kwiatek! In Crete there was never a colonisation of Muslims from mainland Turkey after the ottoman conquest. Instead, we had the change of faith of maybe 40% of the Christian population. These became the Cretan muslims or the "Turcocretans", fearsome in battle and firm supporters of the Ottoman rule. However they never became either "proper" muslims (they continued to eat pork and drink wine), neither "proper" Turks! They continued to speak only the Cretan dialect of the Greek language. They learned the turkish language after the population exchange with Turkey in 1924, were the last ones left for Turkey, in exchange with Greek refuges from Asia minor. Some of their descentents still understand Greek today. So in addition to the difficulty of translating the meaning from Arabic to Turkish, here we had the additional difficulty that the meaning had to be communicated to the muslim owner in Greek!