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Old 7th October 2018, 11:59 AM   #1
chiefheadknocker
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Default long persian dagger / wootz blade ?

Hi all ,this is another find which I have recently picked up , Im very much a novice but thought this dagger was of good quality , I believe its of Persian origin with ivory handle and is quite long measuring in total 40 cm and blade 29 cm , im stuck on whether this is a wootz blade ive tried to take a picture the best I can, is it advisable to etch the blade ?
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Old 7th October 2018, 02:59 PM   #2
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Nice find. It is an a Pesh Qabz and I would place it from modern day Afghanistan, most likely from the 1800s. It seems to be very nicely built. I don't think it is wootz, from the look of it in the pictures.
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Old 7th October 2018, 03:23 PM   #3
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Hi thanks for your reply , I have taken a few more pictures of the blade there seems to be a pattern to the blade but hard to photo,
thanks
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Old 7th October 2018, 03:43 PM   #4
Jens Nordlunde
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Why dont you try to etch it?
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Old 7th October 2018, 03:52 PM   #5
Martin Lubojacky
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Interesting structure of the material of the handle. If in Africa, I would be covinced - hipo tooth.
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Old 7th October 2018, 04:05 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde
Why dont you try to etch it?


Hi , I have tried etching with white vinegar in the past but never seem to get a consistant finish so to speak , allways ends up slightly patchy maybe im not leaving it long enough , maybe I will give it another try on this blade.
thanks
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Old 7th October 2018, 04:38 PM   #7
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Try something stronger or immerse it in vinegar for much longer. I do see a little bit of pattern in the new picture though.
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Old 7th October 2018, 06:10 PM   #8
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I have taken a couple of pics with my mobile phone which seems to show the pattern slightly better
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Old 7th October 2018, 10:22 PM   #9
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Your Pesh-kabz is, in my opinion, north Indian from early 19th century and certainly wootz. For etching, you can find a lot of information on this forum. I documented the process step by step.
Congratulations for such a nice piece!
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Old 8th October 2018, 02:31 AM   #10
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Looks like very nice crystalline wootz. I echo what the others have said regarding age. Nice to have the scabbard, too. Be sure to condition that, as well.
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Old 8th October 2018, 06:53 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shayde78
Looks like very nice crystalline wootz. I echo what the others have said regarding age. Nice to have the scabbard, too. Be sure to condition that, as well.


Thanks for your reply , im not sure what to do with the scabbard it would take very thin leather to recover it , maybe I could use a velvet instead ?
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Old 8th October 2018, 08:08 AM   #12
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In my opinion

leave scabbard as is
It is an old knife that will I assume never be used as a knife nor carried so no need to make the scabbard what it isnít also if you resell later the scabbard will look new and bring age of blade into question

Cleaning the blade and etching it will enhance though and be fully reversible.
Did you add washing up liquid to the hot vinegar as it breaks up surface tension in the vinegar and leads to a more even spread of liquid on the blade

Ps lovely item

Regards
Ken
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Old 8th October 2018, 08:44 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mariusgmioc
Your Pesh-kabz is, in my opinion, north Indian from early 19th century and certainly wootz. For etching, you can find a lot of information on this forum. I documented the process step by step.
Congratulations for such a nice piece!


Agree with Marius,
A lovely Pesh-Kabz, wootz blade and ivory handle. As Martin noted, could well be hippo, hard to tell the difference by photos. A Fine dagger!!!
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Old 8th October 2018, 08:53 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kmaddock
In my opinion

leave scabbard as is
It is an old knife that will I assume never be used as a knife nor carried so no need to make the scabbard what it isnít also if you resell later the scabbard will look new and bring age of blade into question

Cleaning the blade and etching it will enhance though and be fully reversible.
Did you add washing up liquid to the hot vinegar as it breaks up surface tension in the vinegar and leads to a more even spread of liquid on the blade

Ps lovely item

Regards
Ken


Hi ken ,thanks for your tip on using washing up liquid ,I might give it a go though im a little nervous about trying to etch it , I think I also agree about the scabbard , it wouldn't match right with brand new leather
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Old 8th October 2018, 09:36 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefheadknocker
Hi ken ,thanks for your tip on using washing up liquid ,I might give it a go though im a little nervous about trying to etch it , I think I also agree about the scabbard , it wouldn't match right with brand new leather


You are talking about etchinng the blade, but did you read the postings here about etching? Did you find my step by step guide?

As with the scabbard, in my oppinion any arrempt ti "repair" it will decrease it's value... significantly. You may as well have a completely new scabbard, bright and shiny, made for the knife, but it's historic value will be nothing.
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Old 8th October 2018, 10:28 AM   #16
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How about restoring the scabbard with antique/19th C silk or leather?
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Old 8th October 2018, 10:33 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mariusgmioc
You are talking about etchinng the blade, but did you read the postings here about etching? Did you find my step by step guide?

As with the scabbard, in my oppinion any arrempt ti "repair" it will decrease it's value... significantly. You may as well have a completely new scabbard, bright and shiny, made for the knife, but it's historic value will be nothing.


Hi , I have just read your step by step guide ,that's very helpful .
Thankyou
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Old 8th October 2018, 10:42 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ALEX
could well be hippo, hard to tell the difference by photos. A Fine dagger!!!


Maybe sperm whale

some pictures with the cellphone of the ivory would surely help
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Old 9th October 2018, 08:47 AM   #19
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Hi,

I would need better pics to be certain, but it definitely looks like elephant ivory. This pattern shows, because the piece is cut so it covers both the bark and core ivory of the tusk. Bark and core material often color differently with time, because of their slightly different composition.

- Beautful knife!

Cheers, Thor
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Old 9th October 2018, 09:13 AM   #20
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I have taken a few close up pics of the handle hope this will help decide what its made from
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Old 9th October 2018, 10:53 AM   #21
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Yup, it's elephant.
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Old 9th October 2018, 04:22 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefheadknocker
I have taken a few close up pics of the handle hope this will help decide what its made from


In the photo of the tip of the pommel you can see a very fine & subtle criss-cross structure. Those are the "Schreger Lines" and are characteristic only to elephant and mammouth ivory.

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Old 9th October 2018, 04:51 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mariusgmioc
In the photo of the tip of the pommel you can see a very fine & subtle criss-cross structure. Those are the "Schreger Lines" and are characteristic only to elephant and mammouth ivory.



That's interesting to know ,thankyou
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Old 9th October 2018, 04:54 PM   #24
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After looking at the top of the blade you can see a v design ,I take its where the blade has been joined to the steel in the handle ?
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Old 9th October 2018, 07:25 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefheadknocker
After looking at the top of the blade you can see a v design ,I take its where the blade has been joined to the steel in the handle ?


So it seems. Interesting observation.
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Old 10th October 2018, 10:35 AM   #26
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You are absolutely right, it is ivory. The picture of the top of the pommel is typical and fully convincing. Nevertheless the drowing of small steady wavelets abeam of the handle has also been occuring on wrought hippo tusks and is coused by regularly scalloped surface of the tooth
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