18th/19thC Gaucho Knife.

Norman McCormick · 16th October 2010, 04:20 PM

Hi,
Picked up this morning what I believe to be an early Gaucho/Criollo knife. The form very closely resembles one pictured in the essay by Abel Domenech and labeled late 18thC Brazilian. The blade is stamped Merino & Co Rio De Aniero the J seems to be a mis-strike and appears as a dot. The tang is peened and the hilt is heavy maybe solid silver? There are no silver marks to denote maker, purity etc. Is Merino & Co a maker, retailer, silversmith? I would appreciate any opinions or insight you may have as to the origins/age etc of this lovely wee knife. Overall 10 inches blade 6 1/8 inches. Many thanks for all and any replies.
Regards,
Norman.

Atlantia · 16th October 2010, 10:17 PM

Oooh, so they are Norman!!!
Thats an absolute beauty!
You've been quite lucky recently mate.
I'm rather envious of this find. Very very nice.

Chris Evans · 16th October 2010, 11:52 PM

Norman,

You have a very nice looking piece there. Are the furnishings silver? If so, any indications of purity?

Have you a copy of Doemench's Dagas de Plata? If not I'll have a look tonight (our time) and see what I can come up with.

Cheers
Chris

Chris Evans · 17th October 2010, 11:48 AM

Hi Norman,

I looked through my copy of Abel Domenech's "Dagas de Plata", which has the most comprehensive listing of brands without finding a reference. I find this a little surprising and think that it will be worth your while to write to Abel, as the blade may be rare.

In any event I do not think that your knife is quite as old as you suggest, but it appears to be old enough to be a classic.

I did a quick search on Google and came up with this: http://www.archive.org/stream/cu3192...70627_djvu.txt

It would appear that they were, amongst other things, surgical instrument manufacturers. Probably in the right ball-park for knife blades.

Cheers
Chris

Atlantia · 17th October 2010, 12:09 PM

Hi Norman,
I'm still green with envy

Have a look here at this essay that Lee very kindly reminded me about recently.
Look at pictures 13-14-15.
Not exactly the same, but certainly similar one to yours I think, on the far left. Even the makers mark seems to be in the same place and although not readable, might even be the same maker.
Best
Gene

Chris Evans · 17th October 2010, 01:18 PM

Hi Gene and Norman,

Good work Gene.

I think that quick key to dating this knife is, apart from tracing the history of the manufacturer's firm, is the typeface used in the brand stamping. Any typographers out there?

Cheers
Chris

Norman McCormick · 17th October 2010, 02:55 PM

Hi Gene, Chris,
First of all many thanks for our help and interest. Re the dating, I went by the dated images, two more attached, in the paper by Abel Domenech on these knives however I do agree that upon handling the knife that early/mid 19thC seems more probable although I would like to be wrong and find that late 18thC is correct. There are no silver marks anywhere but having handled fair amounts of antique silver I have no hesitation in saying that the hilt at least is made with a relatively high silver content and solid, the scabbard may be plated but the clip and chape seem solid. I will send photos to Mr.Domenech as suggested, should be interesting I hope.
My Regards,
Norman.

Norman McCormick · 17th October 2010, 07:02 PM

Hi,
Upon closer inspection the scabbard looks as if it may be sheet silver with a reinforcing brass plate behind the area where the clip is attached. The maker is Merino & CV or CU and not & Co. I have e-mailed Abel Domenech photographs and will post the results of his reply if and when received.
Regards,
Norman.

Chris Evans · 18th October 2010, 01:16 AM

Hi Norman,

We are awiting Abel's reply most anxiously.

Cheers
Chris

Norman McCormick · 21st October 2010, 08:18 PM

Hi Chris and Gene,
I have now received a reply from Mr. Abel Domenech.
The shallow chiseled decoration is typical of early knives. My knife is very similar if not identical to his in various aspects, the handle, bolster, shape of blade, shape and decoration of sheath although, in his words, the belt hook and end of sheath are prettier on mine! The stamp of Merino & Cia is not only upside down on both his knife and mine the J in Janeiro is also absent from both and replaced by a dot, possibly a worn stamp as it was common for letters to be mis-struck or missing altogether. This form was probably made in Germany/Belgium/Flandres with handles and sheaths of nickel silver/German silver/alpaca especially for the South American market at the end of the 18thC beginning of the 19thC and this is the dating he ascribes to this knife. Merino & Cia in his opinion was a Brazilian importer and he believes that these ornate knives were for wealthy citizens of Rio de Janeiro city and were not true Gaucho knives as used by the country folk.
I would like to thank Mr Domenech for his kind and courteous reply to my enquiry.
My Regards,
Norman.

P.S. Chris, I have written back to him with a few further questions and the info re the 1876 Exhibition and Merino & Co that you kindly supplied. Will post reply received if and when.

P.P.S. It would appear that I was wrong re the silver factor with regard to the hilt, getting older and stupider, although there is a slight colour difference in hilt and scabbard. I still could have sworn the hilt had a real silver content so I might take it to a local jeweller and get it tested.

Chris Evans · 22nd October 2010, 12:12 PM

Hi Norman,

If Mr Domenech dates it as 1800ish, then that is the date we should go with. One thing is certain, you got your money's worth and I am envious!

You may care to read the history of Alpacca/Nickel Silver in this Wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel_silver#History

Plase keep us posted re whatever else you find out about this most interesting piece.

Cheers
Chris

16th October 2010, 04:20 PM	#1
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,575	18th/19thC Gaucho/Criollo Knife. Hi, Picked up this morning what I believe to be an early Gaucho/Criollo knife. The form very closely resembles one pictured in the essay by Abel Domenech and labeled late 18thC Brazilian. The blade is stamped Merino & Co Rio De Aniero the J seems to be a mis-strike and appears as a dot. The tang is peened and the hilt is heavy maybe solid silver? There are no silver marks to denote maker, purity etc. Is Merino & Co a maker, retailer, silversmith? I would appreciate any opinions or insight you may have as to the origins/age etc of this lovely wee knife. Overall 10 inches blade 6 1/8 inches. Many thanks for all and any replies. Regards, Norman. Attached Images Last edited by Norman McCormick; 16th October 2010 at 10:15 PM.

17th October 2010, 12:09 PM	#5
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Hi Norman, I'm still green with envy Have a look here at this essay that Lee very kindly reminded me about recently. Look at pictures 13-14-15. Not exactly the same, but certainly similar one to yours I think, on the far left. Even the makers mark seems to be in the same place and although not readable, might even be the same maker. Best Gene Attached Images

17th October 2010, 02:55 PM	#7
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,575	Hi Gene, Chris, First of all many thanks for our help and interest. Re the dating, I went by the dated images, two more attached, in the paper by Abel Domenech on these knives however I do agree that upon handling the knife that early/mid 19thC seems more probable although I would like to be wrong and find that late 18thC is correct. There are no silver marks anywhere but having handled fair amounts of antique silver I have no hesitation in saying that the hilt at least is made with a relatively high silver content and solid, the scabbard may be plated but the clip and chape seem solid. I will send photos to Mr.Domenech as suggested, should be interesting I hope. My Regards, Norman. Attached Images

21st October 2010, 08:18 PM	#10
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,575	Hi Chris and Gene, I have now received a reply from Mr. Abel Domenech. The shallow chiseled decoration is typical of early knives. My knife is very similar if not identical to his in various aspects, the handle, bolster, shape of blade, shape and decoration of sheath although, in his words, the belt hook and end of sheath are prettier on mine! The stamp of Merino & Cia is not only upside down on both his knife and mine the J in Janeiro is also absent from both and replaced by a dot, possibly a worn stamp as it was common for letters to be mis-struck or missing altogether. This form was probably made in Germany/Belgium/Flandres with handles and sheaths of nickel silver/German silver/alpaca especially for the South American market at the end of the 18thC beginning of the 19thC and this is the dating he ascribes to this knife. Merino & Cia in his opinion was a Brazilian importer and he believes that these ornate knives were for wealthy citizens of Rio de Janeiro city and were not true Gaucho knives as used by the country folk. I would like to thank Mr Domenech for his kind and courteous reply to my enquiry. My Regards, Norman. P.S. Chris, I have written back to him with a few further questions and the info re the 1876 Exhibition and Merino & Co that you kindly supplied. Will post reply received if and when. P.P.S. It would appear that I was wrong re the silver factor with regard to the hilt, getting older and stupider, although there is a slight colour difference in hilt and scabbard. I still could have sworn the hilt had a real silver content so I might take it to a local jeweller and get it tested. Last edited by Norman McCormick; 21st October 2010 at 10:49 PM.

16th October 2010, 10:17 PM	#2
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Oooh, so they are Norman!!! Thats an absolute beauty! You've been quite lucky recently mate. I'm rather envious of this find. Very very nice.

16th October 2010, 11:52 PM	#3
Chris Evans Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 661	Norman, You have a very nice looking piece there. Are the furnishings silver? If so, any indications of purity? Have you a copy of Doemench's Dagas de Plata? If not I'll have a look tonight (our time) and see what I can come up with. Cheers Chris

17th October 2010, 11:48 AM	#4
Chris Evans Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 661	Hi Norman, I looked through my copy of Abel Domenech's "Dagas de Plata", which has the most comprehensive listing of brands without finding a reference. I find this a little surprising and think that it will be worth your while to write to Abel, as the blade may be rare. In any event I do not think that your knife is quite as old as you suggest, but it appears to be old enough to be a classic. I did a quick search on Google and came up with this: http://www.archive.org/stream/cu3192...70627_djvu.txt It would appear that they were, amongst other things, surgical instrument manufacturers. Probably in the right ball-park for knife blades. Cheers Chris

17th October 2010, 01:18 PM	#6
Chris Evans Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 661	Hi Gene and Norman, Good work Gene. I think that quick key to dating this knife is, apart from tracing the history of the manufacturer's firm, is the typeface used in the brand stamping. Any typographers out there? Cheers Chris

17th October 2010, 07:02 PM	#8
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,575	Hi, Upon closer inspection the scabbard looks as if it may be sheet silver with a reinforcing brass plate behind the area where the clip is attached. The maker is Merino & CV or CU and not & Co. I have e-mailed Abel Domenech photographs and will post the results of his reply if and when received. Regards, Norman.

18th October 2010, 01:16 AM	#9
Chris Evans Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 661	Hi Norman, We are awiting Abel's reply most anxiously. Cheers Chris

22nd October 2010, 12:12 PM	#11
Chris Evans Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 661	Hi Norman, If Mr Domenech dates it as 1800ish, then that is the date we should go with. One thing is certain, you got your money's worth and I am envious! You may care to read the history of Alpacca/Nickel Silver in this Wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel_silver#History Plase keep us posted re whatever else you find out about this most interesting piece. Cheers Chris