Related mysticism (Java)

Atlantia · 6th February 2009, 03:39 PM

Well, good afternoon gentlemen.

As you know I usually confine my half baked opinions and ideas to the two other areas, so you can imagine I am stepping out of my comfort zone in being here!

I was chatting to my Mrs about various traditions concerning weapons and happened to touch on the Keris/Kris.
During this conversation I was telling her about a documentary that I saw many, many years ago about Java.
In it the crew visited a Kris maker who used to make blades and (allegedly) push his thumb or lips onto the surface of the metal while red hot and leave an imprint.

I can't remember if they filmed him doing this, but they did show some very clear shots of the finished items with him holding them and showing his thumb/lips alongside the imprints.
It was very impressive!

Has anyone every come across this?

Also, either in that documentary or a related one in that series of documentaries, one of the crew became ill with an eye infection and they had to visit a local doctor.
I remember he had an office in a major city and cured people by electric shocks generated from his hands.
The crew were naturally skeptical and checked him over. He gave them various examples of his skill (scaring them a little) and then led them outside where he made a balled up piece of newspaper ignite by waving his hand over it.

Well, I have searched and cannot find the kris maker, but I did find the Doctor/Chi master!

Please check this video clip out:
John Chang video clip

David · 6th February 2009, 04:36 PM

Yes, the film you talk about is from the Ring of Fire series with the 2 brother traveling around the far east. I have seen this and it is indeed very interesting stuff. I won't comment on "doctor" Chang here other than to say that he shows some interesting skills.
The imprints on the blade that you mention is called keris picit (there are various spellings) and i own a couple of blades with these indentations. I don't know if there is a proper name for the same marks made by the lips (ouchie

), but i am fairly sure that these are in fact legitimate (though i am also as sure that these marks have also been faked at times). The empu is said to imbue extra powers into the keris in this process.

Here is a link to a nice example which is extremely similar to one that i possess.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ht=keris+picit

ganjawulung · 7th February 2009, 03:14 AM

... hopefully it is relevant to what you want to know. Please, watch this "debus" or "debus banten" -- which is vastly practized in Banten, West Jawa.

Even the television presenter "shows" the debus practice... According to the interview, "debus is not a black magic power. But part of their self defense...

View this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhQki...eature=related

GANJAWULUNG

Atlantia · 7th February 2009, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Yes, the film you talk about is from the Ring of Fire series with the 2 brother traveling around the far east. I have seen this and it is indeed very interesting stuff. I won't comment on "doctor" Chang here other than to say that he shows some interesting skills.
The imprints on the blade that you mention is called keris picit (there are various spellings) and i own a couple of blades with these indentations. I don't know if there is a proper name for the same marks made by the lips (ouchie

), but i am fairly sure that these are in fact legitimate (though i am also as sure that these marks have also been faked at times). The empu is said to imbue extra powers into the keris in this process.

Here is a link to a nice example which is extremely similar to one that i possess.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ht=keris+picit

Hi David,
Did you watch the series at the time?
Can you believe it was 20 years ago????

The blademaker in the program I'm thinking of made actually pushed the imprint of his thumb or lips into the metal of the blade up on the wide part near the hilt, the blade stayed 'straight' but there was an imprint like he'd stamped it with his thumb.
Now this is 20 years ago, but I think you could see the fingerprint.

Atlantia · 7th February 2009, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ganjawulung

... hopefully it is relevant to what you want to know. Please, watch this "debus" or "debus banten" -- which is vastly practized in Banten, West Jawa.

Even the television presenter "shows" the debus practice... According to the interview, "debus is not a black magic power. But part of their self defense...

View this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhQki...eature=related

GANJAWULUNG

HI, Thanks thats an interesting clip!
Poor girl doesn't loo like she wants the big needle pushed through her face!!

David · 7th February 2009, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atlantia

HI, Thanks thats an interesting clip!
Poor girl doesn't loo like she wants the big needle pushed through her face!!

I don't want to suggest that this is a trick of some kind, but this does seem to imply that there is not great skill to be learned here as the woman is completely untrained and unfocusses for this. I wonder if the water they keep giving here doesn't have some kind of numbing agent in it.

Anyway, while certainly Debus isn't "black magic power" it also isn't any major form of self defense either.

Atlantia, i saw some of the Ring of Fire series years ago, but i only saw the one in you mentioned this past year.

6th February 2009, 03:39 PM	#1
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Related mysticism (Java) Well, good afternoon gentlemen. As you know I usually confine my half baked opinions and ideas to the two other areas, so you can imagine I am stepping out of my comfort zone in being here! I was chatting to my Mrs about various traditions concerning weapons and happened to touch on the Keris/Kris. During this conversation I was telling her about a documentary that I saw many, many years ago about Java. In it the crew visited a Kris maker who used to make blades and (allegedly) push his thumb or lips onto the surface of the metal while red hot and leave an imprint. I can't remember if they filmed him doing this, but they did show some very clear shots of the finished items with him holding them and showing his thumb/lips alongside the imprints. It was very impressive! Has anyone every come across this? Also, either in that documentary or a related one in that series of documentaries, one of the crew became ill with an eye infection and they had to visit a local doctor. I remember he had an office in a major city and cured people by electric shocks generated from his hands. The crew were naturally skeptical and checked him over. He gave them various examples of his skill (scaring them a little) and then led them outside where he made a balled up piece of newspaper ignite by waving his hand over it. Well, I have searched and cannot find the kris maker, but I did find the Doctor/Chi master! Please check this video clip out: John Chang video clip

7th February 2009, 03:14 AM	#3
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	DEBUS Banten ... hopefully it is relevant to what you want to know. Please, watch this "debus" or "debus banten" -- which is vastly practized in Banten, West Jawa. Even the television presenter "shows" the debus practice... According to the interview, "debus is not a black magic power. But part of their self defense... View this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhQki...eature=related GANJAWULUNG

6th February 2009, 04:36 PM	#2
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,024	Yes, the film you talk about is from the Ring of Fire series with the 2 brother traveling around the far east. I have seen this and it is indeed very interesting stuff. I won't comment on "doctor" Chang here other than to say that he shows some interesting skills. The imprints on the blade that you mention is called keris picit (there are various spellings) and i own a couple of blades with these indentations. I don't know if there is a proper name for the same marks made by the lips (ouchie ), but i am fairly sure that these are in fact legitimate (though i am also as sure that these marks have also been faked at times). The empu is said to imbue extra powers into the keris in this process. Here is a link to a nice example which is extremely similar to one that i possess. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ht=keris+picit