German 16thC Axe for comment

cornelistromp · 2nd February 2012, 08:13 PM

Hi There,

today I have received a beautiful and interesting Axe.

I think it has a German origin and was made at the end of the 16th century. (1591)
The snake in the tree- or s- mark I have seen before somewhere, also the pattern on the shaft and inlays looks familiar to me. (I think I have seen it on some 16thC firearm stock?)
The petalled flower which stands for Christianity,but the oriental-looking towers ?
I am more at home in swords who helps me further with this Axe?

thanks.

cornelistromp · 2nd February 2012, 08:26 PM

in G.C Stone is an Axe with a similar shaft p.80 nr 4.

fernando · 2nd February 2012, 09:29 PM

What a beautiful axe indeed, Jasper.
I hope you may soon have it fully identified.

cornelistromp · 4th February 2012, 08:56 AM

???

can someone of the forum help me with those marks or patterns in the wood?

maybe somebody knows ones similar to the above , anything is appreciated.

best,

broadaxe · 4th February 2012, 05:45 PM

Very interesting find, I'm going green...

Dated pieces are of high importance for documenting similar items. Judging from the shades I think it is a side axe, hence a tool for shaping beams of wood and the haft could be a later replacement. Nevertheless, I've seen side axes re-mounted periodly for using in battle - although being awkward for actucal use in combat.
The three tower (lower side towers and higher central tower) theme is known to me from crusader iconography and usually stands for 'city', so this, plus the other embelishments and decorated haft could have been an official/symbolic tool of rank, like for a head of a carpenters guild or such. The Saxon miners guild axe is very iconic.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 5th February 2012, 05:36 PM

Salaams all ~ Axe Point swept forward... in the form of a throwing axe... This is, I suggest, a Francesca (Frank) throwing axe style ... If its not an original German 7th century weapon its a copy later say 15th or 16th C. This type of axe was copied by various warring factions but started with The Franks apparently. See wiki encyclopaedia for definition of "Francesca throwing axe". See Thread "A group of axes" by M Eley and at #17 a quote from wiki encyclopaedia for reference.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

fspic · 6th February 2012, 03:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cornelistromp

???
can someone of the forum help me with those marks or patterns in the wood?

Find old books showing common furniture of the place where you think this originated. That will often have similar markings. A lot of American furniture was chip carved by traveling carvers who did the diamond point chiseling on a lot of farm cabinets, beds, and furniture. There are likely to be general books on the old techniques and patterns for simple decorating of wood.

M ELEY · 7th February 2012, 04:43 AM

I've seen this type of decorative work and bone inlay of European crossbows ranging from 16th-19th century. It seems to me to be a legitimate older piece probably of the time period suggested at the start of this thread-

You may want to take a look online for some of the wood decorations on crossbows of the period...

BTW- An absolutely spectacular piece, Cornelis. Congrats!!!

Matchlock · 13th February 2012, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M ELEY

I've seen this type of decorative work and bone inlay of European crossbows ranging from 16th-19th century. It seems to me to be a legitimate older piece probably of the time period suggested at the start of this thread-

You may want to take a look online for some of the wood decorations on crossbows of the period...

BTW- An absolutely spectacular piece, Cornelis. Congrats!!!

Absolutely correct, Marc,

These are decorative symbols widely used by craftsmen on either metal or wooden objects from at least the 15th thru the 18thc., and so of course did the 19th c. art revival!

Thank you!

Best,
Michael

cornelistromp · 15th February 2012, 07:53 AM

thanks for the help and very useful tips and suggestions, I hope that the marks and pattern still will be found and posted in this thread.

regards from Amsterdam,
Jasper

M ELEY · 15th February 2012, 01:51 PM

Hello Michael,

Oh no, not art revival again!! I never realized how invasive this period was on earlier works. Worse than those Victorian copies of earlier swords. Is it your opinion, then, that Cornelis axe is 19th c.?

2nd February 2012, 08:26 PM	#2
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,057	in G.C Stone is an Axe with a similar shaft p.80 nr 4. Attached Images

2nd February 2012, 08:13 PM	#1
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,057	German 16thC Axe for comment Hi There, today I have received a beautiful and interesting Axe. I think it has a German origin and was made at the end of the 16th century. (1591) The snake in the tree- or s- mark I have seen before somewhere, also the pattern on the shaft and inlays looks familiar to me. (I think I have seen it on some 16thC firearm stock?) The petalled flower which stands for Christianity,but the oriental-looking towers ? I am more at home in swords who helps me further with this Axe? thanks. Attached Images Last edited by cornelistromp; 3rd February 2012 at 01:14 PM.

2nd February 2012, 09:29 PM	#3
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,637	What a beautiful axe indeed, Jasper. I hope you may soon have it fully identified.

4th February 2012, 08:56 AM	#4
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,057	??? can someone of the forum help me with those marks or patterns in the wood? maybe somebody knows ones similar to the above , anything is appreciated. best,

4th February 2012, 05:45 PM	#5
broadaxe Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 332	Very interesting find, I'm going green... Dated pieces are of high importance for documenting similar items. Judging from the shades I think it is a side axe, hence a tool for shaping beams of wood and the haft could be a later replacement. Nevertheless, I've seen side axes re-mounted periodly for using in battle - although being awkward for actucal use in combat. The three tower (lower side towers and higher central tower) theme is known to me from crusader iconography and usually stands for 'city', so this, plus the other embelishments and decorated haft could have been an official/symbolic tool of rank, like for a head of a carpenters guild or such. The Saxon miners guild axe is very iconic.

5th February 2012, 05:36 PM	#6
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Salaams all ~ Axe Point swept forward... in the form of a throwing axe... This is, I suggest, a Francesca (Frank) throwing axe style ... If its not an original German 7th century weapon its a copy later say 15th or 16th C. This type of axe was copied by various warring factions but started with The Franks apparently. See wiki encyclopaedia for definition of "Francesca throwing axe". See Thread "A group of axes" by M Eley and at #17 a quote from wiki encyclopaedia for reference. Regards, Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

7th February 2012, 04:43 AM	#8
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,066	I've seen this type of decorative work and bone inlay of European crossbows ranging from 16th-19th century. It seems to me to be a legitimate older piece probably of the time period suggested at the start of this thread- You may want to take a look online for some of the wood decorations on crossbows of the period... BTW- An absolutely spectacular piece, Cornelis. Congrats!!!

15th February 2012, 07:53 AM	#10
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,057	thanks for the help and very useful tips and suggestions, I hope that the marks and pattern still will be found and posted in this thread. regards from Amsterdam, Jasper

15th February 2012, 01:51 PM	#11
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,066	Hello Michael, Oh no, not art revival again!! I never realized how invasive this period was on earlier works. Worse than those Victorian copies of earlier swords. Is it your opinion, then, that Cornelis axe is 19th c.?