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Old 15th April 2012, 11:30 AM   #1
Sajen
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Default Two kris

Hello all,

recently I win the ebay auction of this kris: http://www.ebay.com/itm/25103341672...984.m1439.l2649
After I have paid the seller offered me a second kris which one I take as well. Since both kris need some restore work I ask Jose aka Battara if I can let them send to him to do this work and he agreed to to do it.
The one from the ebay auction seems to be a Maguindanao kris and I think the second one is a Maranao. The Maranao kris have some corrosion and I hope and cross my fingers that it isn't to deep.
Here at first the pictures from the Mag. kris.
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Old 15th April 2012, 11:35 AM   #2
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And here the pictures of the other one, Maranao kris.

Maybe it's possible that the seller will be able to provide the name of the soldier who bring this both kris to the States. He will contact me when he is successful.

As usual all comments are welcome.
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Last edited by Sajen : 15th April 2012 at 12:35 PM.
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Old 15th April 2012, 11:39 AM   #3
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Nice pieces would certainly love to see them restored!
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Old 15th April 2012, 12:04 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A.alnakkas
Nice pieces would certainly love to see them restored!



Thank's mate, I am as well!

Regards,

Detlef
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Old 15th April 2012, 03:29 PM   #5
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Hello Detlef, Very nice kris you have there. I will be very interested is seeing them again after Jose works his magic on them. Having the seller offer you the second was a real stroke of luck. My congratulation to you on these new additions. Maybe Jose will be able to supply you with progress picture to post as he works on them.

Robert
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Old 15th April 2012, 03:43 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Coleman
Maybe Jose will be able to supply you with progress picture to post as he works on them.

Robert



Thank you Robert! Hope this as well. Would be nice to see how they come to old glory again!

Regards,

Detlef
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Old 16th April 2012, 11:02 AM   #7
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Hi Sajen,
nicely picked up!! I think the corrosion is just lying on top of the metal. Dont think you have to woory about that. On the contrary the metal bands on the second kris on the grip will give you (us too? )a nice surpise! Possibly a silver alloy (hopefully).
The scabbards will also be restored? Ai that will be a more serious 'job'.
Also; seen the two iron nailstubs on top of the second kris grip there may have been a rounded (ivory??) top attached originally.
Whats the age of these; around 1900? slightly after?

Congrats!
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Old 16th April 2012, 06:16 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Indianajones
Hi Sajen,
nicely picked up!! I think the corrosion is just lying on top of the metal. Dont think you have to woory about that. On the contrary the metal bands on the second kris on the grip will give you (us too? )a nice surpise! Possibly a silver alloy (hopefully).
The scabbards will also be restored? Ai that will be a more serious 'job'.
Also; seen the two iron nailstubs on top of the second kris grip there may have been a rounded (ivory??) top attached originally.
Whats the age of these; around 1900? slightly after?

Congrats!



Thank you Wouter,

think that the metal bands from the second kris are from silver or silver plated, when Jose received it he will tell us. Have as well recognized the two nail pins on the top of the handle, don't know what have been there.

The sheaths will be maybe a later project, not for the moment.

About the age I am unsure, the soldier bring them with after the Spanish American War which was 1898, so they are from end of the 19th century when this story is true.

Regards,

Detlef
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Old 16th April 2012, 08:01 PM   #9
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Also; did you see the strange square hole in the scabbard of the 2nd kris!?!?
Wonder why that is there? It seems to have patine in the inneredges. (I am not an expert on these Southern krisses)
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Old 17th April 2012, 07:30 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Indianajones
Also; did you see the strange square hole in the scabbard of the 2nd kris!?!?
Wonder why that is there? It seems to have patine in the inneredges. (I am not an expert on these Southern krisses)


..... hole for belt-clasp/hanger insert.

BTW ..... Both items appear to be of last quarter of 19thC manufacture.

Best,

Last edited by Amuk Murugul : 17th April 2012 at 08:51 AM.
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Old 17th April 2012, 02:13 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amuk Murugul
..... hole for belt-clasp/hanger insert.
Best,


Good possible!

Regards,

Detlef
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Old 17th April 2012, 08:30 PM   #12
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Hello Detlef,

Both kris look like turn-of-century examples to me. The first blade also looks a bit Maranao-ish to me...

I don't think the excision was meant for a hanger block - these tend to be rare and situated at the center of the scabbard (only needed for the crosspiece-less Maguindanao scabbards anyway). Could you please try to get a close-up of this?

Regards,
Kai
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Old 17th April 2012, 08:36 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kai
Hello Detlef,

Both kris look like turn-of-century examples to me. The first blade also looks a bit Maranao-ish to me...

Regards,
Kai


Hello Kai,

the attribution was from Jose by pm. But since both kris come from the same source... Could it maybe a trade blade? Or a cross cultural piece?

Regards,

Detlef
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Old 17th April 2012, 08:38 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kai
Could you please try to get a close-up of this?


Can't, both kris was send to Jose who received them today!
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Old 17th April 2012, 10:20 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kai
Both kris look like turn-of-century examples to me. The first blade also looks a bit Maranao-ish to me...

The first one says Maguindanao to me and the second says Maranao. They would be very similar in style since they are next door neighbors.
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Old 23rd April 2012, 03:22 PM   #16
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The seller send me today the name from the soldier who bring with this bot kris: James Hart from Pennsylvania. Is it possible to find this name in some list from the Spanish American War? Where I have to search?

Regards,

Detlef
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Old 24th April 2012, 02:55 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sajen
The seller send me today the name from the soldier who bring with this bot kris: James Hart from Pennsylvania. Is it possible to find this name in some list from the Spanish American War? Where I have to search?

Regards,

Detlef


Maybe this fellow. Started with Google,

Steve



http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/f...r&GRid=27214008

http://www.paspanishamericanwar.com...regiment/h.html

HART, James W. P., Private, Co. H; Residence: Washington, Pa.; Enrolled June 20, 1898; Mustered in June 25, 1898; Joined Regiment at Manila, P. I., Dec. 2, 1898; Mustered out with company Aug. 22, 1899.

http://www.paspanishamericanwar.com/tenthregiment/

But there are other Harts listed with the initial J in their names.
http://www.paspanishamericanwar.com/rosters.html

Last edited by Ferguson : 24th April 2012 at 08:37 AM.
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Old 24th April 2012, 03:14 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferguson
Maybe this fellow. Started with Google,

Steve



http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/f...r&GRid=27214008

http://www.paspanishamericanwar.com...regiment/h.html

HART, James W. P., Private, Co. H; Residence: Washington, Pa.; Enrolled June 20, 1898; Mustered in June 25, 1898; Joined Regiment at Manila, P. I., Dec. 2, 1898; Mustered out with company Aug. 22, 1899.

http://www.paspanishamericanwar.com/tenthregiment/

But there are other Harts listed with the initial J in their names.
http://www.paspanishamericanwar.com/rosters.html


Hello Steve,

thank you so much! I think that it should be this man! I have searched by Google as well but found many many soldiers with this name but don't found your second link!

Great help!!

Regards,

Detlef
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Old 29th April 2012, 10:21 AM   #19
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You're very welcome Detlef.

Steve
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Old 6th May 2012, 02:56 AM   #20
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Well as requested here are some pictures of some of the process:

This one is of making the missing silver okir plates that were on top of the kris pommels. I chased them and then drilled holes in them for the brass nails. Also the plates and bands need to be etched in acid and then polished to blacken the lines to stand out.
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Old 6th May 2012, 03:02 AM   #21
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Here are some pictures of making the brass nails for the silver bands and silver plates all for the pommels. I first take brass wire and carefully melt the end to make a ball. Then I flatten the balls to make nail heads. Then I cut the section of wire in a way the makes a point on the other end. The nail heads are polished and eight nails were made.
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Old 6th May 2012, 10:35 AM   #22
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Hello Jose,

very interesting to see how you do this and thank you very much for posting the pictures. Please continue!

Regards,

Detlef
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Old 10th May 2012, 02:21 AM   #23
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Here are pictures of my blackening the silver (and subsequently polishing it) so that the lines of design stand out. Then I use the premade brass nails and nail the silver plaques onto the tops of the kris (there were old holes where original nails for lost silver plaques were).
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Old 10th May 2012, 05:11 PM   #24
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Thank you for sharing the pictures of your work!
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Old 11th May 2012, 10:31 PM   #25
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Here are more pictures of the making of the silver bands around the tops of the kris pommels. I draw out what I will cut out, cut, then stamp and chase the bands. After blackening them I polish them and drill holes in the ends where the brass nails will go. I drill into the pommels and hammer the nails through the silver bands into the wood. Pictures appear out of sequence, but you get the idea.
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Old 11th May 2012, 10:51 PM   #26
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Nice little chasing hammer, Jose; I've got one of those .
Handy little devils they are .
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Old 11th May 2012, 11:44 PM   #27
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Jose,
Thanks for the pictures!
What do you blacken the silver with?

Thanks,
Steve
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Old 12th May 2012, 01:22 AM   #28
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Rick - the chasing hammer is crazy useful.

Steve - I use "silver black". It is an acid exclusively for silver. You can also use "liver of sulfer" but that has a quick shelf life once opened.
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Old 17th May 2012, 02:25 AM   #29
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Here comes the tedious part - the winding of the string and then painting the section with black lacquer, all after I made the silver band for this kris.
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Old 17th May 2012, 11:18 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Battara
Here comes the tedious part - the winding of the string and then painting the section with black lacquer, all after I made the silver band for this kris.


Hello Jose,

yes, I believe that this is the most tedious part! Some questions: What you use for the string? And which sort of lacquer you use? And at last, do you think that above from the last brass band have been nothing originally?

Regards,

Detlef
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