two little daggers for coments

fernando · 27th March 2007, 08:53 PM

The first one has an ivory grip ( i think ). The blade measures 10 cms. (4").The guard and scabbard mouth are white brass, the tip is missing. I wouldn't call it a miniature, as actual daggers with these dimensions do seem to exist. But it is not a boot or a bodice dagger, those are different, right ?. Could this be called a woman's dagger ? Necessarily European ?
The second one has a bone grip. The blade measures 19 cms. ( 8").
The grip end plate is copper, and so was the ferrule, that fell with the seller's cleaning ( so he said ) revealing a smaller one in brass. He said he bought it locally, sounding like a rural piece, but the profiling of the grip in that sort of hexagonal manner is a bit sophisticated for a domestic work.
Any coments would be so much wellcome.
fernando

M ELEY · 29th March 2007, 06:47 AM

It's a coincidence that I just purchased my first naval dirk and then saw this post. The first one is more of a gambler's type dagger, mid to late 19th century, I'd wager. It could be a "soiled dove's" garter dagger, as this pice appears small enough. The second is a midshipman's naval dirk, early 19th century. Alittle rough, but pretty cool. It could be an American piece, with it's simplicity. I don't suppose it's for sale?

fernando · 29th March 2007, 03:04 PM

Thank you so much for the precious info, M Eley.
No, not for sale, but i appreciate the interest. I thought the piece was close from valueless.
Kind regards
fernando

M ELEY · 31st March 2007, 03:26 AM

Glad to be of help. From a quick search, yours looks to be American. Check out the following-
www.ambroseantiques.com/swords/ivorydirk.htm

Here are some others of differing grades, styles and countries of origin-
www.rogersstudy.co.uk/peel/images_2/dirk.jpg
www.vallejogallery.com/item.php?id=1462
http://hometown.aol.com/machood/navaldirk.html
http://www.phoenixmasonry.org/masoni...naval_dirk.htm

Hope this helps. Oh, BTW, these don't have any value, so if you WANT to give it away anytime soon...

fernando · 31st March 2007, 05:42 PM

So much obliged.
Obviously you have more mileage than me in these things

. I have visited that first web site, but wasn't patient enough to roll down the page, so i didn't see the specimen you are now showing ... a style indeed similar to mine.That's quite comforting. I meant valueless in the sense of collecting, due to its simpleness and rusticity, looking like an undetermined home made thing. But that was before seeing it characterized, and of interest to a real ( you ) collector. I also found the price wasn't that presumptuous, for the usual over here. It cost me the equivalent to $60,00 ... much less than the garter dagger, in the same seller.
BTW, would you still date this dirk as early 19th century? That would be double comforting, as i mainly seek for age in the pieces i (afford to) get.
Best regards
fernando

M ELEY · 3rd April 2007, 01:46 AM

Hello, Fernando. Sorry...I was away from my computer for awhile. Yes, I would still date the American piece as EITHER late 18th to early 19th century. This was a time in America's history when materials were scarce and edged weapons typically crude, but very folk-art, if you know what I mean. It would fit nicely into a Revolutionary/ war of 1812 setting. $60!!! Wow! You got quite a steal. Even as a primative piece, you can do a search and see the kind of prices these naval pieces are getting. They typically sell for the same or more than a British naval piece in much better condition/same period. Again, nice catch!

fernando · 3rd April 2007, 12:33 PM

Thanks a lot Mark, for such complete info.
All the best.
(From an ex-Army Paramedic

)

27th March 2007, 08:53 PM	#1
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,642	two little daggers for coments The first one has an ivory grip ( i think ). The blade measures 10 cms. (4").The guard and scabbard mouth are white brass, the tip is missing. I wouldn't call it a miniature, as actual daggers with these dimensions do seem to exist. But it is not a boot or a bodice dagger, those are different, right ?. Could this be called a woman's dagger ? Necessarily European ? The second one has a bone grip. The blade measures 19 cms. ( 8"). The grip end plate is copper, and so was the ferrule, that fell with the seller's cleaning ( so he said ) revealing a smaller one in brass. He said he bought it locally, sounding like a rural piece, but the profiling of the grip in that sort of hexagonal manner is a bit sophisticated for a domestic work. Any coments would be so much wellcome. fernando Attached Images

29th March 2007, 06:47 AM	#2
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,072	Nice pieces! It's a coincidence that I just purchased my first naval dirk and then saw this post. The first one is more of a gambler's type dagger, mid to late 19th century, I'd wager. It could be a "soiled dove's" garter dagger, as this pice appears small enough. The second is a midshipman's naval dirk, early 19th century. Alittle rough, but pretty cool. It could be an American piece, with it's simplicity. I don't suppose it's for sale? Last edited by M ELEY; 29th March 2007 at 06:51 AM. Reason: Additions

29th March 2007, 03:04 PM	#3
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,642	Thank you so much for the precious info, M Eley. No, not for sale, but i appreciate the interest. I thought the piece was close from valueless. Kind regards fernando

31st March 2007, 03:26 AM	#4
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,072	Glad to be of help. From a quick search, yours looks to be American. Check out the following- www.ambroseantiques.com/swords/ivorydirk.htm Here are some others of differing grades, styles and countries of origin- www.rogersstudy.co.uk/peel/images_2/dirk.jpg www.vallejogallery.com/item.php?id=1462 http://hometown.aol.com/machood/navaldirk.html http://www.phoenixmasonry.org/masoni...naval_dirk.htm Hope this helps. Oh, BTW, these don't have any value, so if you WANT to give it away anytime soon...

31st March 2007, 05:42 PM	#5
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,642	So much obliged. Obviously you have more mileage than me in these things . I have visited that first web site, but wasn't patient enough to roll down the page, so i didn't see the specimen you are now showing ... a style indeed similar to mine.That's quite comforting. I meant valueless in the sense of collecting, due to its simpleness and rusticity, looking like an undetermined home made thing. But that was before seeing it characterized, and of interest to a real ( you ) collector. I also found the price wasn't that presumptuous, for the usual over here. It cost me the equivalent to $60,00 ... much less than the garter dagger, in the same seller. BTW, would you still date this dirk as early 19th century? That would be double comforting, as i mainly seek for age in the pieces i (afford to) get. Best regards fernando

3rd April 2007, 01:46 AM	#6
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,072	Hello, Fernando. Sorry...I was away from my computer for awhile. Yes, I would still date the American piece as EITHER late 18th to early 19th century. This was a time in America's history when materials were scarce and edged weapons typically crude, but very folk-art, if you know what I mean. It would fit nicely into a Revolutionary/ war of 1812 setting. $60!!! Wow! You got quite a steal. Even as a primative piece, you can do a search and see the kind of prices these naval pieces are getting. They typically sell for the same or more than a British naval piece in much better condition/same period. Again, nice catch!

3rd April 2007, 12:33 PM	#7
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,642	Thanks a lot Mark, for such complete info. All the best. (From an ex-Army Paramedic )