Wootz Shamshir

ariel · 2nd December 2017, 12:27 AM

Sorry if I was less than precise.
By monosteel I mean truly uniform industrial grade European steel manufactured under tight conditions and with meticulous quality control. They did not require additional homogenization. Surely, lower quality steel manufactured in rather primitive and poorly controlled conditions will have variable composition in different areas. But monosteel Solingen, Birmingham and Zlatoust blades did not delaminate. Damascus gun barrels from Liege did, simply because they were deliberately composed of bars with different carbon content.

And yes, the seam on the spine might look like delamination. But not quite. The edges of the ingot with most impurities, slag and variable composition just could not be fused when forged under low temperatures needed for wootz. More precisely, it is not a delamination ( which implies past good lamination ), but an almost inavoidable defect of forging. They can be barely noticeable or ugly as hell. I have several wootz blades with them.

mariusgmioc · 2nd December 2017, 04:38 PM

Hello Ariel,

I doubt that the crack in Bryce's blade is a manufacturing flaw. If it were, it would have been repaired with some bronze filling. I still believe it is a crack that appeared much later in the blade's life as a result of delamination. However, which of us is right would be rather impossible to check without a careful metallographic examination.

Moreover, even if it were a forging flaw, the precise forging process that involves fusing the edges of an ingot that was bent over itself is "lamination." So even of the defect appeared during the process itself, it would still be "delamination." Well at least that's how we called them during our metallurgy classes at the university.

Cheers!

Marius

ariel · 2nd December 2017, 07:20 PM

You might be correct.

shastardhari · 24th January 2018, 10:59 AM

Very nice sir

Bryce · 9th April 2018, 12:48 AM

G'day Guys,

I came across another image of the Lion Pictogram on a Persian blade. Very similar to mine, although a little better done. Again it shows that "face" peering over the lion's back, but in more detail this time.

Cheers,
Bryce

Bryce · 2nd June 2020, 04:37 AM

G'day Guys,
I have often wondered what sort of material the grip is made from. It appears to be some sort of horn. Can any one shed some light on what sort of horn it is likely to be?
Cheers,
Bryce

2nd December 2017, 12:27 AM	#1
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Sorry if I was less than precise. By monosteel I mean truly uniform industrial grade European steel manufactured under tight conditions and with meticulous quality control. They did not require additional homogenization. Surely, lower quality steel manufactured in rather primitive and poorly controlled conditions will have variable composition in different areas. But monosteel Solingen, Birmingham and Zlatoust blades did not delaminate. Damascus gun barrels from Liege did, simply because they were deliberately composed of bars with different carbon content. And yes, the seam on the spine might look like delamination. But not quite. The edges of the ingot with most impurities, slag and variable composition just could not be fused when forged under low temperatures needed for wootz. More precisely, it is not a delamination ( which implies past good lamination ), but an almost inavoidable defect of forging. They can be barely noticeable or ugly as hell. I have several wootz blades with them. Last edited by ariel; 2nd December 2017 at 04:27 AM.

9th April 2018, 12:48 AM	#5
Bryce Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: North Queensland, Australia Posts: 174	G'day Guys, I came across another image of the Lion Pictogram on a Persian blade. Very similar to mine, although a little better done. Again it shows that "face" peering over the lion's back, but in more detail this time. Cheers, Bryce Attached Images

2nd June 2020, 04:37 AM	#6
Bryce Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: North Queensland, Australia Posts: 174	G'day Guys, I have often wondered what sort of material the grip is made from. It appears to be some sort of horn. Can any one shed some light on what sort of horn it is likely to be? Cheers, Bryce Attached Images

2nd December 2017, 04:38 PM	#2
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,882	Hello Ariel, I doubt that the crack in Bryce's blade is a manufacturing flaw. If it were, it would have been repaired with some bronze filling. I still believe it is a crack that appeared much later in the blade's life as a result of delamination. However, which of us is right would be rather impossible to check without a careful metallographic examination. Moreover, even if it were a forging flaw, the precise forging process that involves fusing the edges of an ingot that was bent over itself is "lamination." So even of the defect appeared during the process itself, it would still be "delamination." Well at least that's how we called them during our metallurgy classes at the university. Cheers! Marius

2nd December 2017, 07:20 PM	#3
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	You might be correct.

24th January 2018, 10:59 AM	#4
shastardhari Member Join Date: Oct 2017 Posts: 27	Very nice sir