Massive Indian spear (sang)

estcrh · 7th September 2016, 02:13 AM

From Egerton. "Arms of the Aboriginal and Dravidian races of Southern India".

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 7th September 2016, 09:18 AM

Some further examples

Mercenary · 7th September 2016, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by estcrh

From Egerton.

Stoun, Egerton, Irvine and more are NOT the different sources or the cross references. They used the same data ((

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 7th September 2016, 11:05 AM

What was the effect of Portuguese Dutch and English ships ...Battle Fleets off the coast of India and shortly after at Sri Lankla with regard to spear transfer of design and technology however basic in these weapons? I can follow to a certain extent some transfer of the European Partisan style spear but to be clear here is the backdrop of essential events that place questions on the time scale of possibility...plus the odd very unusual fact thrown in here for good measure which raise not a few questions....Bare in mind that in any vanguard move the Portuguese were sure to have spears in their order of Battle. Usually Partisan style. The Dutch had the same weapon and used it equally in their style of fighting with spear m,en to the fore...

1. The Portuguese. Vasco da Gama was on the Indian Coast(Malibar...Calicut) and went ashore 20 May 1498 and the first person he met was a Tunisian Moslem gentleman...!!!

2. Later they discovered Sri Lankla and went into battle mode from 1505 to 1658.
3. The Dutch took over from about 1640.
4. The British were relatively latecomers but entered the situation in 1796.

Are we saying that the Portuguese who had a very high military profile impacted no spear technology in almost a century and a half of battling the Sri Lankans? and that it was the Dutch who introduced the Partesan spear weapon to the Sri Lankans after 1640...?

What do we know about the meeting with the Tunisian and how does that alter the weapon potential of copied form from the Mediterranean to the Indian Ocean and Vice Versa?

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 7th September 2016, 11:21 AM

As a vignette on proceedings here is a sketch of a battle between Dutch and Portuguese indicating heavy use of spears at least certainly by the Dutch but we know the defenders would have had equally a lot of spear men in their order of Battle...The Galle Fort being stormed by the Dutch. The defenders were Portuguese..plus Mercenaries. 1640AD

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 7th September 2016, 01:20 PM

Ribeiro in his Fatalida De Histories written in 1685, describing the Sinhala Army states;-

” Amoung their fighting men are also men of the low cast. The Carias are fisherman, the Mainatos, washers and the Pachas, Sandal makers. Also these have brave Generals and Captains, but are serving in one army…….. Modelias, Appuames, Adigars and other great folk amoung them wear a shirt and doublet. The fighting men alone use arms;they carry swords of two and half spans which they call calachurros; the soldiers are lascarins, some are pikemen and their weapons eighteen spans long; others are espinggerdeiros and are skilled in firing; others use bows which they can shoot accurately. Some carry muskets with a barrel of eight palms and weighing forty pounds from which they shoot a ball of four ounces”.

Dutch influence. Since the Dutch came to the rescue and fought on the side of the Sri Lankans it is of interest that this could have heralded the use of the Partisan weapon and this could be where it transferred to Sri Lankan use through tactics transfer and copying of this weapon/issue by the Dutch to their Sri Lankan allies...and became accepted as part of their joint fighting style. Below joining of the Dutch and Srl Lankan forces....

estcrh · 7th September 2016, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Dutch influence. Since the Dutch came to the rescue and fought on the side of the Sri Lankans it is of interest that this could have heralded the use of the Partisan weapon and this could be where it transferred to Sri Lankan use through tactics transfer and copying of this weapon/issue by the Dutch to their Sri Lankan allies...and became accepted as part of their joint fighting style. Below joining of the Dutch and Srl Lankan forces....

Are you suggesting that the Sri Lankan spear takes its from from the European Partisan??

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 7th September 2016, 02:45 PM

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 7th September 2016, 02:48 PM

Yes. The Partisan was used by the Europeans probably during the Portuguese / Dutch period in Sri Lanka but introduced as a Sri Lankan weapon copied in / provided actually by the Dutch in the period they were fighting along side the Sri Lankans against the Portuguese about 1680...I believe the Sri Lankan weapon is called almost the same as the Partisan.

It is called a Patisthanaya .

There is some added depth seen at http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=8187

estcrh · 7th September 2016, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mercenary

Stoun, Egerton, Irvine and more are NOT the different sources or the cross references. They used the same data ((

And what data did they use??

7th September 2016, 02:13 AM	#1
estcrh Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: USA Posts: 1,497	From Egerton. "Arms of the Aboriginal and Dravidian races of Southern India". Attached Images Last edited by estcrh; 7th September 2016 at 10:43 AM.

7th September 2016, 09:18 AM	#2
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Some further examples Attached Images Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 7th September 2016 at 09:28 AM.

7th September 2016, 11:05 AM	#4
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	What was the effect of Portuguese Dutch and English ships ...Battle Fleets off the coast of India and shortly after at Sri Lankla with regard to spear transfer of design and technology however basic in these weapons? I can follow to a certain extent some transfer of the European Partisan style spear but to be clear here is the backdrop of essential events that place questions on the time scale of possibility...plus the odd very unusual fact thrown in here for good measure which raise not a few questions....Bare in mind that in any vanguard move the Portuguese were sure to have spears in their order of Battle. Usually Partisan style. The Dutch had the same weapon and used it equally in their style of fighting with spear m,en to the fore... 1. The Portuguese. Vasco da Gama was on the Indian Coast(Malibar...Calicut) and went ashore 20 May 1498 and the first person he met was a Tunisian Moslem gentleman...!!! 2. Later they discovered Sri Lankla and went into battle mode from 1505 to 1658. 3. The Dutch took over from about 1640. 4. The British were relatively latecomers but entered the situation in 1796. Are we saying that the Portuguese who had a very high military profile impacted no spear technology in almost a century and a half of battling the Sri Lankans? and that it was the Dutch who introduced the Partesan spear weapon to the Sri Lankans after 1640...? What do we know about the meeting with the Tunisian and how does that alter the weapon potential of copied form from the Mediterranean to the Indian Ocean and Vice Versa? Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 7th September 2016 at 11:24 AM.

7th September 2016, 11:21 AM	#5
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	As a vignette on proceedings here is a sketch of a battle between Dutch and Portuguese indicating heavy use of spears at least certainly by the Dutch but we know the defenders would have had equally a lot of spear men in their order of Battle...The Galle Fort being stormed by the Dutch. The defenders were Portuguese..plus Mercenaries. 1640AD Attached Images

7th September 2016, 01:20 PM	#6
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Ribeiro in his Fatalida De Histories written in 1685, describing the Sinhala Army states;- ” Amoung their fighting men are also men of the low cast. The Carias are fisherman, the Mainatos, washers and the Pachas, Sandal makers. Also these have brave Generals and Captains, but are serving in one army…….. Modelias, Appuames, Adigars and other great folk amoung them wear a shirt and doublet. The fighting men alone use arms;they carry swords of two and half spans which they call calachurros; the soldiers are lascarins, some are pikemen and their weapons eighteen spans long; others are espinggerdeiros and are skilled in firing; others use bows which they can shoot accurately. Some carry muskets with a barrel of eight palms and weighing forty pounds from which they shoot a ball of four ounces”. Dutch influence. Since the Dutch came to the rescue and fought on the side of the Sri Lankans it is of interest that this could have heralded the use of the Partisan weapon and this could be where it transferred to Sri Lankan use through tactics transfer and copying of this weapon/issue by the Dutch to their Sri Lankan allies...and became accepted as part of their joint fighting style. Below joining of the Dutch and Srl Lankan forces.... Attached Images Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 7th September 2016 at 01:46 PM.

7th September 2016, 02:45 PM	#8
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 7th September 2016 at 03:19 PM.

7th September 2016, 02:48 PM	#9
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Yes. The Partisan was used by the Europeans probably during the Portuguese / Dutch period in Sri Lanka but introduced as a Sri Lankan weapon copied in / provided actually by the Dutch in the period they were fighting along side the Sri Lankans against the Portuguese about 1680...I believe the Sri Lankan weapon is called almost the same as the Partisan. It is called a Patisthanaya . There is some added depth seen at http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=8187 Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 7th September 2016 at 03:15 PM.