A Keris for comment

harrywagner · 13th December 2015, 02:42 PM

I would like to solicit comments and opinions about this Keris. I believe it is from Java. Is this a tourist souvenir? Any ideas about it's age? It came with two hilts. I am curious if the fancy hilt is appropriate for this knife or if I should stick with the more plain one. I believe the fancy one was purchased separately. TIA!

Harry

Henk · 13th December 2015, 07:40 PM

Very nice keris. Certainly not tourist stuff.
I believe the naga is done with gold because the copper stuff looks different.
Stay with the plain ukiran. The other one is a madura ukiran. The keris is in javanese dress.
The keris itself is maybe not very old but a lovely piece in my opnion.
Well done!!

harrywagner · 13th December 2015, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henk

Very nice keris. Certainly not tourist stuff.
I believe the naga is done with gold because the copper stuff looks different.
Stay with the plain ukiran. The other one is a madura ukiran. The keris is in javanese dress.
The keris itself is maybe not very old but a lovely piece in my opnion.
Well done!!

Thank you! That helps me a great deal. I like it also and am reasonably certain the gilding is gold. My fingernail has no effect on it and the blade is heavier than the other three Keris I have, which I attribute to the gold. I would not have been a bit surprised to discover it was a tourist item, and am thrilled that it is not. I'll swap out the hilt for the more traditional one and park the one from Madura on my desk. Thanks again. Much appreciated.

A. G. Maisey · 13th December 2015, 08:02 PM

I agree with Henk.

However, that mendak really should be replaced, it ruins the whole presentation. This type of mendak is very low quality and detracts from an otherwise pretty OK keris.

What is the material in the pendok?

The crest on the back of the pendok is the crest of the Surakarta Karaton.

The posted photo shows a nice quality mendak, not highest quality, but good middle quality, heavy silver and natural stones. Something like this would make a world of difference to the presentation of this keris. The hilt is tayuman baru, maker was Sutejo.

harrywagner · 13th December 2015, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

I agree with Henk.

However, that mendak really should be replaced, it ruins the whole presentation. This type of mendak is very low quality and detracts from an otherwise pretty OK keris.

What is the material in the pendok?

The crest on the back of the pendok is the crest of the Surakarta Karaton.

The posted photo shows a nice quality mendak, not highest quality, but good middle quality, heavy silver and natural stones. Something like this would make a world of difference to the presentation of this keris. The hilt is tayuman baru, maker was Sutejo.

Thank you! I was hoping someone would recognize that crest. I believe the pendok is brass. I know little about the piece. I bought it, and another I posted previously, on faith alone. i am relieved it is not a tourist piece. My "wall of shame" is getting pretty crowded. Thanks again. I appreciate the help.

David · 14th December 2015, 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harrywagner

Thank you! I was hoping someone would recognize that crest. I believe the pendok is brass. I know little about the piece. I bought it, and another I posted previously, on faith alone. i am relieved it is not a tourist piece. My "wall of shame" is getting pretty crowded. Thanks again. I appreciate the help.

Yes Harry, i wouldn't call this a tourist keris piece, however i wouldn't make any assumptions based on the crest that it is a Keraton piece either. Seems a contemporary piece to me, but created with at least some integrity. I like the repousse work on the pendok and that's nice pelet wood used for the sheath. Definitely swap back to the simpler planar hilt and see if you can find a nice mendak and this one can avoid the "Wall of Shame" for sure.

harrywagner · 14th December 2015, 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Yes Harry, i wouldn't call this a tourist keris piece, however i wouldn't make any assumptions based on the crest that it is a Keraton piece either. Seems a contemporary piece to me, but created with at least some integrity. I like the repousse work on the pendok and that's nice pelet wood used for the sheath. Definitely swap back to the simpler planar hilt and see if you can find a nice mendak and this one can avoid the "Wall of Shame" for sure.

Hi David, I am the worlds worst at guessing an item's age, but this seems modern to me also. Within the last decade or two at most. Thank you. I appreciate the help.

Jean · 14th December 2015, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harrywagner

the blade is heavier than the other three Keris I have, which I attribute to the gold.

Really? The gold coat should be very thick then!

harrywagner · 14th December 2015, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jean

Really? The gold coat should be very thick then!

Hi Jean, Maybe. Or maybe it is just a thicker blade. Or perhaps a combination of the two. I only have four Keris, and those four are the only ones I have had an opportunity to handle. So take anything I say about Keris with a grain of salt. Here are the weights for the four I have:

This one: 1 lb 7 oz
Beanie boy hilt (previously posted): 14.5 oz
Monkey hilt (also previously posted): 13.1 oz
A new (vintage) one I have not yet posted: 10 oz

Harry

A. G. Maisey · 14th December 2015, 08:46 PM

Harry, one of the things I do when I appraise a keris is to examine it very closely using a 3X loupe under good natural light. You can see a lot that you cannot otherwise see.

I suggest you have a close look at the gold that has been applied to the surface of this blade.

There are several different ways to attach gold to the surface of a blade, it is probable that the gold on your blade is a very, very thin layer of foil that has been attached in a similar way to koftgari. Sometimes a little bit of adhesive might be used where where the foil will not stick.

The total weight of the gold will be very small.

This keris is a bit heavier than your others because it is a current era keris, and the raised areas of carved steel, needed to support the gold add to the weight.

harrywagner · 14th December 2015, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Harry, one of the things I do when I appraise a keris is to examine it very closely using a 3X loupe under good natural light. You can see a lot that you cannot otherwise see.

I suggest you have a close look at the gold that has been applied to the surface of this blade.

There are several different ways to attach gold to the surface of a blade, it is probable that the gold on your blade is a very, very thin layer of foil that has been attached in a similar way to koftgari. Sometimes a little bit of adhesive might be used where where the foil will not stick.

The total weight of the gold will be very small.

This keris is a bit heavier than your others because it is a current era keris, and the raised areas of carved steel, needed to support the gold add to the weight.

I am sure you are right. It is difficult for me to tell looking at it under magnification, but I can take some gold off with edge of a dime. I have to be a little vigorous but it does come off, so it probably is pretty thin. Here are some macro photos that might help. Many thanks for your help!

A. G. Maisey · 15th December 2015, 02:10 AM

Thanks Harry, but I don't need the pics. This is one of those very rare cases where I know exactly what I am looking at.

Jean · 15th December 2015, 08:28 AM

Hello Alan,
Is it possible to apply gold paint instead of gold leaf like I did on this small (wooden) balinese hilt or would it peel-off easily?
Regards

A. G. Maisey · 15th December 2015, 08:40 AM

Yes, gold paint can be used, but this is the worst and cheapest of jobs.

In Jogja back in the 1960's and through into the '70's they glued the foil on.

Another way is to apply brass, carve the brass and gold plate it.

Another way is to use fire gilding.

Then we have genuine kinatah work, which has a range of qualities.

Above this, and used mainly on the gonjo, lumps of gold are set in place by use of undercut holes cut into the steel, the gold is then carved.

More than one way to skin a cat, and finished they all look pretty much the same in photos.

13th December 2015, 02:42 PM	#1
harrywagner Member Join Date: Jul 2015 Posts: 373	A Keris for comment I would like to solicit comments and opinions about this Keris. I believe it is from Java. Is this a tourist souvenir? Any ideas about it's age? It came with two hilts. I am curious if the fancy hilt is appropriate for this knife or if I should stick with the more plain one. I believe the fancy one was purchased separately. TIA! Harry Attached Images

13th December 2015, 08:02 PM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,698	I agree with Henk. However, that mendak really should be replaced, it ruins the whole presentation. This type of mendak is very low quality and detracts from an otherwise pretty OK keris. What is the material in the pendok? The crest on the back of the pendok is the crest of the Surakarta Karaton. The posted photo shows a nice quality mendak, not highest quality, but good middle quality, heavy silver and natural stones. Something like this would make a world of difference to the presentation of this keris. The hilt is tayuman baru, maker was Sutejo. Attached Images Last edited by A. G. Maisey; 13th December 2015 at 08:31 PM.

15th December 2015, 08:28 AM	#13
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Hello Alan, Is it possible to apply gold paint instead of gold leaf like I did on this small (wooden) balinese hilt or would it peel-off easily? Regards Attached Images

13th December 2015, 07:40 PM	#2
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	Very nice keris. Certainly not tourist stuff. I believe the naga is done with gold because the copper stuff looks different. Stay with the plain ukiran. The other one is a madura ukiran. The keris is in javanese dress. The keris itself is maybe not very old but a lovely piece in my opnion. Well done!!

14th December 2015, 08:46 PM	#10
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,698	Harry, one of the things I do when I appraise a keris is to examine it very closely using a 3X loupe under good natural light. You can see a lot that you cannot otherwise see. I suggest you have a close look at the gold that has been applied to the surface of this blade. There are several different ways to attach gold to the surface of a blade, it is probable that the gold on your blade is a very, very thin layer of foil that has been attached in a similar way to koftgari. Sometimes a little bit of adhesive might be used where where the foil will not stick. The total weight of the gold will be very small. This keris is a bit heavier than your others because it is a current era keris, and the raised areas of carved steel, needed to support the gold add to the weight.

15th December 2015, 02:10 AM	#12
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,698	Thanks Harry, but I don't need the pics. This is one of those very rare cases where I know exactly what I am looking at.

15th December 2015, 08:40 AM	#14
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,698	Yes, gold paint can be used, but this is the worst and cheapest of jobs. In Jogja back in the 1960's and through into the '70's they glued the foil on. Another way is to apply brass, carve the brass and gold plate it. Another way is to use fire gilding. Then we have genuine kinatah work, which has a range of qualities. Above this, and used mainly on the gonjo, lumps of gold are set in place by use of undercut holes cut into the steel, the gold is then carved. More than one way to skin a cat, and finished they all look pretty much the same in photos.