Question on Trapezoid Powder Flasks

Yancey von Yeast · 15th September 2012, 03:07 AM

Hello,

I am new to the forum and thoroughly enjoying every second that I can spend reading and learning. My sincerest thanks to everyone in this wonderful community.

Here is a question. Does anyone have any ideas on how the iron mounts on the late 16th century powder flasks was originally finished? Bright? Painted? Japanned?

Also, if it is possible, what was the average height of the trapezoid musket flasks? I have never had the priviledge of handling or seeing an original in person. I do so enjoy all of the photos on the site.

Thanks so much!

Yancey C. von Yeast

fernando · 15th September 2012, 09:26 AM

Welcome to the forum, Yancey.
I hope soon you will have an answer to your questions

Matchlock · 15th September 2012, 02:03 PM

Hi Yancey,

And welcome here!

All iron mounts (not just the top mounts) on trapezoidal musketeer's powder flasks were either tinned or blued/blackened. Anyway, they were never left unfnished in a polished-bright iron surface originally - but unfortunately most museum's and private 'restorers' have tended to scrub off every tiny bit of original surface from old iron surfaces, just to present them in an unnaturally 'shiny white' ...

You will also be interested to learn that they were not only confined in time to the late 16th c. The earliest trapezoidal flasks are recorded from paintings and in collections (including mine) since at least the early 1520's (!) but seem to have come out of use by the beginning of the 17th c.

The earliest flasks had a height of ca. 16 to 18 cm, their latest forms of ca. 1600 were ca. 20-24 cm high.
Priming flasks of course were smaller, about ca. 11-13 cm.

Anyway, my following threads and posts should be able to answer your questions satisfyingly:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...sks+bandoliers

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...d+flask+munich

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...s+powder+flask

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...s+powder+flask

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...s+powder+flask

And please DO use the SEARCH function on the forum: enter tags like 'trapezoid(al) flasks', 'musketeer's powder flasks' or simply 'powder flasks', 'bandoliers', or 'matchlock/wheellock musket', 'landsknecht (h)arquebus' to learn about the guns used together with these flasks - and you will find a lot of stuff for your studies!

Best,
Michael

Yancey von Yeast · 15th September 2012, 03:04 PM

Michael,

Thank you so very much for the great information and the links to the other posts. The pictures of the items in your collection are simply amazing. I have learned so much in the short time that I have been reading and researching.

I am a black powder shooter and am building a flask to go with my matchlock musket. I have always wanted one and have never seen anything near a correct original for sale. I do know that this forum is not for reproductions, but it helps greatly in reproducing early arms and accountrements.

I love that you shoot your original muskets. I too shoot originals, but don't have any original matchlocks. New muskets simply have no soul!

Most Sincerely,

Yancey

Yancey von Yeast · 17th September 2012, 03:27 AM

Michael,

Yet another question. Are the L shaped iron strips on the sides of the flasks held in place with small iron nails or pins? From your photos I can't tell, but some appear that they are.

Thanks again,
Yancey

Matchlock · 17th September 2012, 12:13 PM

Hi Yancey,

Actually there are no L-shaped strips.
During the first half of the 16th c., the mounts along the edges are held by either small nails or pins; from the mid 16th c. onward, they are just laid on, fixed by the top and bottom mounts, and four small triangular mounts attached by screws or nails are used to reinfore the lower corners.

Best,
Michael

Yancey von Yeast · 18th September 2012, 02:57 AM

Michael,

Thank you so very much for being so generous with information and the outstanding photos of your collection. You truely are one of those collectors who share your love and appreciation of these items with others.

I enjoy countless hours reading your posts and looking at the photos you post.

Most Sincerely,

Yancey

Matchlock · 18th September 2012, 03:02 PM

Hi Yancey,

Thanks for your kind words, and keep enjoying my threads.

Best,
Michael

Matchlock · 27th September 2012, 03:10 PM

For cartridge boxes, please see

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...artridge+boxes

m

Matchlock · 27th September 2012, 03:13 PM

For a highly unusual trapezoid flask, please see

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=10549&
highlight=nuremberg+powder+flask

m

15th September 2012, 03:07 AM	#1
Yancey von Yeast Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 4	Question on Trapezoid Powder Flasks Hello, I am new to the forum and thoroughly enjoying every second that I can spend reading and learning. My sincerest thanks to everyone in this wonderful community. Here is a question. Does anyone have any ideas on how the iron mounts on the late 16th century powder flasks was originally finished? Bright? Painted? Japanned? Also, if it is possible, what was the average height of the trapezoid musket flasks? I have never had the priviledge of handling or seeing an original in person. I do so enjoy all of the photos on the site. Thanks so much! Yancey C. von Yeast

15th September 2012, 02:03 PM	#3
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Hi Yancey, And welcome here! All iron mounts (not just the top mounts) on trapezoidal musketeer's powder flasks were either tinned or blued/blackened. Anyway, they were never left unfnished in a polished-bright iron surface originally - but unfortunately most museum's and private 'restorers' have tended to scrub off every tiny bit of original surface from old iron surfaces, just to present them in an unnaturally 'shiny white' ... You will also be interested to learn that they were not only confined in time to the late 16th c. The earliest trapezoidal flasks are recorded from paintings and in collections (including mine) since at least the early 1520's (!) but seem to have come out of use by the beginning of the 17th c. The earliest flasks had a height of ca. 16 to 18 cm, their latest forms of ca. 1600 were ca. 20-24 cm high. Priming flasks of course were smaller, about ca. 11-13 cm. Anyway, my following threads and posts should be able to answer your questions satisfyingly: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...sks+bandoliers http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...d+flask+munich http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...s+powder+flask http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...s+powder+flask http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...s+powder+flask And please DO use the SEARCH function on the forum: enter tags like 'trapezoid(al) flasks', 'musketeer's powder flasks' or simply 'powder flasks', 'bandoliers', or 'matchlock/wheellock musket', 'landsknecht (h)arquebus' to learn about the guns used together with these flasks - and you will find a lot of stuff for your studies! Best, Michael Last edited by Matchlock; 15th September 2012 at 08:09 PM.

17th September 2012, 12:13 PM	#6
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Hi Yancey, Actually there are no L-shaped strips. During the first half of the 16th c., the mounts along the edges are held by either small nails or pins; from the mid 16th c. onward, they are just laid on, fixed by the top and bottom mounts, and four small triangular mounts attached by screws or nails are used to reinfore the lower corners. Best, Michael Attached Images Last edited by Matchlock; 17th September 2012 at 02:27 PM.

15th September 2012, 09:26 AM	#2
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,639	Welcome to the forum, Yancey. I hope soon you will have an answer to your questions

15th September 2012, 03:04 PM	#4
Yancey von Yeast Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 4	Michael, Thank you so very much for the great information and the links to the other posts. The pictures of the items in your collection are simply amazing. I have learned so much in the short time that I have been reading and researching. I am a black powder shooter and am building a flask to go with my matchlock musket. I have always wanted one and have never seen anything near a correct original for sale. I do know that this forum is not for reproductions, but it helps greatly in reproducing early arms and accountrements. I love that you shoot your original muskets. I too shoot originals, but don't have any original matchlocks. New muskets simply have no soul! Most Sincerely, Yancey

17th September 2012, 03:27 AM	#5
Yancey von Yeast Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 4	Michael, Yet another question. Are the L shaped iron strips on the sides of the flasks held in place with small iron nails or pins? From your photos I can't tell, but some appear that they are. Thanks again, Yancey

18th September 2012, 02:57 AM	#7
Yancey von Yeast Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 4	Michael, Thank you so very much for being so generous with information and the outstanding photos of your collection. You truely are one of those collectors who share your love and appreciation of these items with others. I enjoy countless hours reading your posts and looking at the photos you post. Most Sincerely, Yancey

18th September 2012, 03:02 PM	#8
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Hi Yancey, Thanks for your kind words, and keep enjoying my threads. Best, Michael

27th September 2012, 03:10 PM	#9
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	For cartridge boxes, please see http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...artridge+boxes m

27th September 2012, 03:13 PM	#10
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	For a highly unusual trapezoid flask, please see http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=10549& highlight=nuremberg+powder+flask m