Need help with a kris

Ferguson · 11th August 2008, 07:38 PM

Hello friends. I just picked up what I thought to be an old kris from Ebay. It's 23" long, pattern welded, and has a separate ganja. All this told me that it might be a nice old one. When I received it though, it is very light. It looks old, but at the mid point of the blade, it's only .105" (2.7 mm) thick. Any thoughts on this piece would be much appreciated. Pictures are attached. One shows another older kris, that is much, much heavier.
Thanks!
Steve

mross · 11th August 2008, 08:04 PM

Hard to tell from the photo but, looks like it could be the real deal. The ganja looks like a replacement. The really old ones are very light. I have keris that are almost the same size as one of my 18th C pieces. My only trepidation is the carving at the top of the blade does not seem up to what I am used to seeing. Could be 18th C or could be a copy. More photo's perhaps?

Bill · 11th August 2008, 09:30 PM

Very nice. Is the blade 23"? I think it is the same source for the 18C passed down for sometime. If the blade is 23", it would be a surprise but I guess it would be the preference of the person that ordered it. The fitting look very old & I'd be surprised if they were original. Try probing around the tang & see if it's oval or appears conventional.
All the file work looks to be from a oldie & appears to be in the transition from a stabbing weapon to a slashing one, perhaps even a little after the transition. If it has a rectangular tang & a 23" blade, I'd guess it's post transition but likely very old.

Flavio · 11th August 2008, 09:48 PM

Steve,

I think that this is the real deal.... oh, oh, no no it's recent '70, please send to me this horror......

Congratulations!!!

Ferguson · 11th August 2008, 09:55 PM

The overall length is 23". Not sure about the tang. I may be able to see it through the crack in the wood. The pommel is a different wood, pinned on to the wood of the handle.

Thanks for all of your replies so far!

Steve

Lew · 11th August 2008, 10:49 PM

Steve

Thank G-d it's not another one of those gunongs!

I still think the the blade is mid 1800s with a late 1800s hilt. As far as the ganja work is concerned not every panday was a Michael Angelo you know

Now get to work and restore that hilt

!

Congrats

Lew

kino · 11th August 2008, 11:35 PM

EBAY?? How could I have missed it??
Anyways...congrats on a nice find. What are you going to wrap the hilt with?

Battara · 12th August 2008, 02:11 AM

Yeah, I too think this is the real deal. Not unknown that the pommel is pinned to the hilt - I have seen this before and in fact have the same treatment on my older one (very similar) - quality burled wood is difficult to carve and hard to come by in large sizes. A smaller example is easier to find and less costly.

Also, the blade carving does not bother me. I'll bet that a good etch might reveal a twist core in the middle.

Ferguson · 12th August 2008, 10:48 AM

Thank you gentlemen for all of your replies. This kris is so different from everything I've seen so far. I really wasn't sure what I had.

I'll probably wrap the hilt in some coconut fiber twine that was given to me by a kind forum member. Then I'll coat it with some black resin.

Here's the ebay auction that it came from. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWN:IT&ih=016

Steve

Flavio · 12th August 2008, 10:53 AM

Hi Steve,

I see from the auction link that there is also a scabbard to restore....!!! Very nice, show us the different fases of the restoration

Flavio

Bill · 12th August 2008, 12:03 PM

Even nicer you got a "wooden case" with it. Can you add some pics of that, it too looks like it's got some age. If the seller is correct & it came post war Japan it sure doesn't help figuring out where they came from. I agree with your observation that these are "different"; too bad they can't tell us their story.
The pommel fitting appears older then the fitting holding the baca-baca. While the gangya appears to have been made to hold a stirrup; I wonder if the original hilt/stirrup/fitting were damaged & repairs were made to save the original kakatua but added a new stirrup & fitting. From the looks it would have been a very old repair.
Wrapping it in abaca would likely be the last way it was while in use, but it also looks nice just the way it is. Sort of let's it talk about himself. Whatever you decide it'll have a great home & caregiver.

Battara · 13th August 2008, 02:26 AM

It may have also had a plain silver band or two in the middle......

11th August 2008, 07:38 PM	#1
Ferguson Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kernersville, NC, USA Posts: 793	Need help with a kris Hello friends. I just picked up what I thought to be an old kris from Ebay. It's 23" long, pattern welded, and has a separate ganja. All this told me that it might be a nice old one. When I received it though, it is very light. It looks old, but at the mid point of the blade, it's only .105" (2.7 mm) thick. Any thoughts on this piece would be much appreciated. Pictures are attached. One shows another older kris, that is much, much heavier. Thanks! Steve

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11th August 2008, 08:04 PM	#2
mross Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 478	Hard to tell from the photo but, looks like it could be the real deal. The ganja looks like a replacement. The really old ones are very light. I have keris that are almost the same size as one of my 18th C pieces. My only trepidation is the carving at the top of the blade does not seem up to what I am used to seeing. Could be 18th C or could be a copy. More photo's perhaps?

11th August 2008, 09:30 PM	#3
Bill Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Chicago area Posts: 327	Very nice. Is the blade 23"? I think it is the same source for the 18C passed down for sometime. If the blade is 23", it would be a surprise but I guess it would be the preference of the person that ordered it. The fitting look very old & I'd be surprised if they were original. Try probing around the tang & see if it's oval or appears conventional. All the file work looks to be from a oldie & appears to be in the transition from a stabbing weapon to a slashing one, perhaps even a little after the transition. If it has a rectangular tang & a 23" blade, I'd guess it's post transition but likely very old.

11th August 2008, 09:48 PM	#4
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Steve, I think that this is the real deal.... oh, oh, no no it's recent '70, please send to me this horror...... Congratulations!!!

11th August 2008, 09:55 PM	#5
Ferguson Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kernersville, NC, USA Posts: 793	The overall length is 23". Not sure about the tang. I may be able to see it through the crack in the wood. The pommel is a different wood, pinned on to the wood of the handle. Thanks for all of your replies so far! Steve

11th August 2008, 10:49 PM	#6
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Steve Thank G-d it's not another one of those gunongs! I still think the the blade is mid 1800s with a late 1800s hilt. As far as the ganja work is concerned not every panday was a Michael Angelo you know Now get to work and restore that hilt ! Congrats Lew

11th August 2008, 11:35 PM	#7
kino Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 972	EBAY?? How could I have missed it?? Anyways...congrats on a nice find. What are you going to wrap the hilt with?

12th August 2008, 02:11 AM	#8
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,139	Yeah, I too think this is the real deal. Not unknown that the pommel is pinned to the hilt - I have seen this before and in fact have the same treatment on my older one (very similar) - quality burled wood is difficult to carve and hard to come by in large sizes. A smaller example is easier to find and less costly. Also, the blade carving does not bother me. I'll bet that a good etch might reveal a twist core in the middle.

12th August 2008, 10:48 AM	#9
Ferguson Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kernersville, NC, USA Posts: 793	Thank you gentlemen for all of your replies. This kris is so different from everything I've seen so far. I really wasn't sure what I had. I'll probably wrap the hilt in some coconut fiber twine that was given to me by a kind forum member. Then I'll coat it with some black resin. Here's the ebay auction that it came from. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWN:IT&ih=016 Steve

12th August 2008, 10:53 AM	#10
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Hi Steve, I see from the auction link that there is also a scabbard to restore....!!! Very nice, show us the different fases of the restoration Flavio

12th August 2008, 12:03 PM	#11
Bill Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Chicago area Posts: 327	Even nicer you got a "wooden case" with it. Can you add some pics of that, it too looks like it's got some age. If the seller is correct & it came post war Japan it sure doesn't help figuring out where they came from. I agree with your observation that these are "different"; too bad they can't tell us their story. The pommel fitting appears older then the fitting holding the baca-baca. While the gangya appears to have been made to hold a stirrup; I wonder if the original hilt/stirrup/fitting were damaged & repairs were made to save the original kakatua but added a new stirrup & fitting. From the looks it would have been a very old repair. Wrapping it in abaca would likely be the last way it was while in use, but it also looks nice just the way it is. Sort of let's it talk about himself. Whatever you decide it'll have a great home & caregiver.

13th August 2008, 02:26 AM	#12
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,139	It may have also had a plain silver band or two in the middle......