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Old 19th August 2019, 11:02 AM   #1
Patje1970
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Default Ukiran material id?

Does anyone recognize the material from this ukiran, based on this photo's?


regards Pat
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Last edited by Patje1970 : 19th August 2019 at 11:05 AM. Reason: added more photo's
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Old 19th August 2019, 11:51 AM   #2
Sajen
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The hilt look very recent to my eyes. Recent hilts from Bali are often carved from moose horn. Difficult to be certain by the look to pictures on a screen.

Regards,
Detlef
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Old 19th August 2019, 11:51 AM   #3
Jean
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Not easy, it seems to have some age, the materials is strong/ solid, not from bone, does not seem from ivory (black spots), so my best guess is deer antler.
Regards
PS: Moose antler is a strong possibility as advised by Detlef.
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Old 19th August 2019, 11:52 AM   #4
Patje1970
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Default More detailed pictures

See more photo's below
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Old 19th August 2019, 11:54 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jean
Not easy, it seems to have some age, the materials is strong/ solid, not from bone, does not seem from ivory (black spots), so my best guess is deer antler.
Regards


Mayby Spermwhale ?
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Old 19th August 2019, 11:59 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patje1970
Mayby Spermwhale ?


The patina & colour do not look like spermwhale tooth from the pics.
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Old 19th August 2019, 12:04 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jean
The patina & colour do not look like spermwhale tooth from the pics.


thanks for the info
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Old 19th August 2019, 01:05 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patje1970
thanks for the info


Other opinions are welcome of course. I attach for reference a semi old Dayak carving made from local deer antler (not moose) with a similar patina & colour (but your piece looks a bit darker from the pics).
Regards
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Old 19th August 2019, 01:54 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jean
Other opinions are welcome of course. I attach for reference a semi old Dayak carving made from local deer antler (not moose) with a similar patina & colour (but your piece looks a bit darker from the pics).
Regards



Nice Carving Jean, thanks. Indeed my piece is a bit darker

Last edited by Patje1970 : 19th August 2019 at 01:55 PM. Reason: correction
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Old 19th August 2019, 04:52 PM   #10
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Well, first off, while i believe this hilt is a contemporary, non-traditional form, i personally find it very appealing.
I don't think it is ivory (certainly not elephant or whale) and it doesn't look anything like the moose antler that many modern Bali carvings are done with. It could be some other type of antler or dense bone.
What does it feel like? is it heavy or light? Does it feel cool to the touch?
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Old 19th August 2019, 05:39 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David
Well, first off, while i believe this hilt is a contemporary, non-traditional form, i personally find it very appealing.
I don't think it is ivory (certainly not elephant or whale) and it doesn't look anything like the moose antler that many modern Bali carvings are done with. It could be some other type of antler or dense bone.
What does it feel like? is it heavy or light? Does it feel cool to the touch?


Hi David,

It feels cool when touching it, In hand it feels a little heavy, even the weight is only approx 128-130 gram. Don't know if it helps, there is a very vague what "saulty" like smell on it.

regards Pat

Last edited by Patje1970 : 19th August 2019 at 05:45 PM. Reason: adding more info
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Old 19th August 2019, 06:27 PM   #12
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Personally I don't think that this hilt is very recent (say less than 10-15 years) or the ageing process was very professionally made! (blackened cavities, etc.). Can you remove the selut? Is there a sign that there is added materials under the selut or inside the pesi hole (look for a transition line with a flashlight), or it is one piece with the hilt? Very nice carving anyway!
Regards
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Old 19th August 2019, 08:54 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jean
Personally I don't think that this hilt is very recent (say less than 10-15 years) or the ageing process was very professionally made! (blackened cavities, etc.). Can you remove the selut? Is there a sign that there is added materials under the selut or inside the pesi hole (look for a transition line with a flashlight), or it is one piece with the hilt? Very nice carving anyway!
Regards


Hi Jean, I cannot remove the selut. Only some pictures from the inside. So far I see it. Seems dense bone ore some kind of antler.

I agree with you that is not very recent, I loved the carving, that's why I bought this one.

regards Pat
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Last edited by Patje1970 : 19th August 2019 at 08:56 PM. Reason: adding more info
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Old 20th August 2019, 01:42 AM   #14
Battara
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Could this have been artificially aged?
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Old 20th August 2019, 02:48 AM   #15
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I think it's entirely possible Jose.
Doesn't look like natural aging to me at all.
If there were evidence of tiny pits I'd think it was a casting that was hand finished.
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Old 20th August 2019, 09:38 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick
I think it's entirely possible Jose.
Doesn't look like natural aging to me at all.
If there were evidence of tiny pits I'd think it was a casting that was hand finished.



I don't think it's a casting. material seems more like antler or bone. The selut attachted is from metal. I don't see evidence of tiny pits. If it is aged it was very professionally made (blackened cavities, etc.)
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Old 20th August 2019, 01:45 PM   #17
A. G. Maisey
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Patje, I think I'd be inclined to do a hot needle test with this hilt.
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Old 20th August 2019, 03:43 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patje1970
I don't think it's a casting. material seems more like antler or bone. The selut attachted is from metal. I don't see evidence of tiny pits. If it is aged it was very professionally made (blackened cavities, etc.)



Another clue you gave was the impression of heavyness and being cool to the touch. Then there is the matter of all the 'gunk' in the crevices.
When I was first collecting kerisses I received a very intricate Madura hilt; it too felt heavy and cool to the touch also with lots of gunk in the crevices. I figured I would clean it up and in doing so discovered it was a casting made from some kind of heavy non natural material and aged quite professionally.

I'll be interested in what you discover when you do a bit of testing.
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