Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Ethnographic Weapons
User Name
Password
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 4th April 2019, 01:29 PM   #1
josh stout
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 396
Default Chinese or Korean dao

This is an ornate cloisonne dao that at first glance looks like a mediocre Chinese copy of a Japanese sword, made for show.

Close inspection of the blade shows what looks like an inserted edge and a typical uninspiring quality fuller. However, there are several details that make me wonder if it is something more rare.

The blade has a much stronger diamond cross section than is typical. The handle turns up in the same direction as the tip instead of down. The tang is not peened.

All of these could be attributed to an attempt to copy Japanese styles, but then why not make the tip faceted?

Another possibility is that it is Korean. They are so rare, that this must be examined very skeptically. Nevertheless, it would fit the combination of seeming Chinese and Japanese characteristics. The blade shape with a strong diamond section but no faceting fits. The handle construction is also similar to Korean things.

The most convincing evidence is the suspension loops. They are in a style that I don't recall seeing on Chinese examples, and but do appear on Korean examples. There is an example of a gum in the "History of Steel" exhibition catalog, with similar fittings.

Let me know how badly I should kick myself for "the one that got away."
Attached Images
      

Last edited by josh stout : 5th April 2019 at 01:09 AM. Reason: I removed my hope that another forumite has the sword ;)
josh stout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th April 2019, 01:30 PM   #2
josh stout
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 396
Default

More pics.
Attached Images
  
josh stout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th April 2019, 02:45 PM   #3
mross
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 445
Default

From what I am seeing in the pics, I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.
mross is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th April 2019, 02:56 PM   #4
josh stout
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 396
Default

So you think it is a bad Chinese copy of a Japanese blade? It is certainly not the best workmanship I have ever seen. If it were better, I would have bid higher.

An argument against it being Korean is that they almost never have a fuller.
josh stout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th April 2019, 03:25 PM   #5
mross
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 445
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by josh stout
So you think it is a bad Chinese copy of a Japanese blade? It is certainly not the best workmanship I have ever seen. If it were better, I would have bid higher.

An argument against it being Korean is that they almost never have a fuller.

Not sure what it is, can't tell much from the pics. Since that's all we have and that's what determines bidding, I would assume they put up the best possible pics. Going on that assumption it does not look to be of very high quality. Chinese weapons are not my best area, but I have never seen anything of high quality in a dress like that. I had a friend who had a Korean dao given to him by his Instructor, no fuller, had a hamon and showed lamination's. I don't see anything like that.
mross is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th April 2019, 07:37 PM   #6
mariusgmioc
Member
 
mariusgmioc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 1,414
Default

Purely decorative/tourist sword-like object with absolutely no ethnographic or historical value whether Chinese or Korean...

My two cents.
mariusgmioc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th April 2019, 10:16 PM   #7
ariel
Member
 
ariel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 4,860
Default

Josh,
IMHO, you are lucky that some schmuck put a higher bid.
ariel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th April 2019, 01:27 PM   #8
Timo Nieminen
Member
 
Timo Nieminen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 422
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by josh stout
An argument against it being Korean is that they almost never have a fuller.


Hmm. Almost 1/3 of the Korean do in the History of Steel exhibition have fullers (4 out of 13), so it doesn't seem that rare.

http://www.arscives.com/historystee...uction_main.htm
Timo Nieminen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th April 2019, 01:43 PM   #9
josh stout
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 396
Default

Yes, I agonized over this. As a Chinese sword it is not very exciting, but as a Korean sword it is quite interesting. In terms of design characteristics it fits everything for a Korean sword, but not a Chinese or Japanese sword.

It is missing a habaki/tonku, but this also seems to be a somewhat variable trait.

The primary argument against this sword is its overall "showiness" combined with a mediocre blade.
josh stout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th April 2019, 12:58 PM   #10
Timo Nieminen
Member
 
Timo Nieminen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 422
Default

IMO, the blade looks very modern. As in late 20th or even 21st century, the kind of thing common on modern Chinese-made fake katana/tachi/gunto.
Timo Nieminen is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 04:39 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.