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Old 10th February 2023, 12:47 AM   #1
Peter Hudson
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Default THE ENGLISH LONG BOW.

Reference
A http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...nt+arms+armour


Incredibly this weapon which comprises of two bits of wood and a length of string was like a machine gun when unleashed en masse on an enemy formation on land or aboard ships and was faster to reload and more devastating untill well after the advent of gunpowder.

I have designed this thread with a short starter as I have some interesting material to add as it rolls out to allow maximum input from members.

Regards,
Peter Hudson.
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Old 10th February 2023, 08:26 PM   #2
fernando
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Default Here is an entry ...

This weapon is actually not essentially an invention of the English, but of a neighboring people, the Welsh. In the 13th century, King Edward I (1239-1307) of England conquers Wales, accepts that some Welsh people join his army and, in this way, the bow begins to be adopted militarily. In fact, initially, the weapon was simply called a 'bow'. The oldest use of the expression 'long bow' appears in texts from the 15th century and served to differentiate it from the crossbow. Later, with its popularization in English society, it became known as the 'English Longbow archers', specialists in shooting the longbow (the Welsh longbow): the projectiles were not particularly strong, nor the range very long. It increased if the bows were fired into the air. But after describing a parabola, they fell precipitously on the targets at a speed that made them deadly. These well-trained archers achieved a rate of fire that is almost unbelievable for us today: João Gouveia Monteiro recalls that a good archer managed to shoot his fourth arrow when the first three were still flying through the air. In July 1385, loaded vessels arrived in Portugal with English fighters, mainly archers, but also pikemen, after two Portuguese ambassadors had been authorized to recruit in England, by King Richard II, as mercenaries – in a total of six to seven hundred.
In the famous battle of Aljubarrota (August 14, 1385), where the Portuguese king managed to maintain the country's independence, such men have been fundamental in contributing to the battle victory.
These English archers (mostly Welsh, in fact) were positioned in two wings (one on each side), slightly ahead of the vanguard lines and organized together with Portuguese crossbowmen.



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Old 11th February 2023, 01:58 AM   #3
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I understand and to some extent sympathise with your belief in the English adoption of the Long Bow from the Welsh...however the weapon originates in paleolithic times . I do however think that the Longbow was taken to a much higher level so although it may have been inspired by Welsh performance it was in the English hands that it was perfected..Anyway it is still often called The Welsh Longbow.

Please see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archery

I QUOTE"Origins and ancient archery
The oldest known evidence of the bow and arrow comes from South African sites such as Sibudu Cave, where the remains of bone and stone arrowheads have been found dating approximately 72,000 to 60,000 years ago.[4][5][6][7][8][9] Based on indirect evidence, the bow also seems to have appeared or reappeared later in Eurasia, near the transition from the Upper Paleolithic to the Mesolithic. The earliest definite remains of bow and arrow from Europe are possible fragments from Germany found at Mannheim-Vogelstang dated 17,500 to 18,000 years ago, and at Stellmoor dated 11,000 years ago. Azilian points found in Grotte du Bichon, Switzerland, alongside the remains of both a bear and a hunter, with flint fragments found in the bear's third vertebra, suggest the use of arrows at 13,500 years ago.[10] Other signs of its use in Europe come from the Stellmoor [de] in the Ahrensburg valley [de] north of Hamburg, Germany and dates from the late Paleolithic, about 10,000–9000 BC. The arrows were made of pine and consisted of a main shaft and a 15–20-centimetre-long (5+7⁄8–7+7⁄8 in) fore shaft with a flint point. There are no definite earlier bows; previous pointed shafts are known, but may have been launched by spear-throwers rather than bows. The oldest bows known so far comes from the Holmegård swamp in Denmark. At the site of Nataruk in Turkana County, Kenya, obsidian bladelets found embedded in a skull and within the thoracic cavity of another skeleton, suggest the use of stone-tipped arrows as weapons about 10,000 years ago.[11] Bows eventually replaced the spear-thrower as the predominant means for launching shafted projectiles, on every continent except Australasia, though spear-throwers persisted alongside the bow in parts of the Americas, notably Mexico and among the Inuit.

Bows and arrows have been present in Egyptian and neighboring Nubian culture since its respective predynastic and Pre-Kerma origins. In the Levant, artifacts that could be arrow-shaft straighteners are known from the Natufian culture, (c. 10,800–8,300 BC) onwards. The Khiamian and PPN A shouldered Khiam-points may well be arrowheads.

Classical civilizations, notably the Assyrians, Greeks, Armenians, Persians, Parthians, Romans, Indians, Koreans, Chinese, and Japanese fielded large numbers of archers in their armies. Akkadians were the first to use composite bows in war according to the victory stele of Naram-Sin of Akkad.[12] Egyptians referred to Nubia as "Ta-Seti," or "The Land of the Bow," since the Nubians were known to be expert archers, and by the 16th Century BC Egyptians were using the composite bow in warfare.[13] The Bronze Age Aegean Cultures were able to deploy a number of state-owned specialized bow makers for warfare and hunting purposes already from the 15th century BC.[14] The Welsh longbow proved its worth for the first time in Continental warfare at the Battle of Crécy.[15] In the Americas archery was widespread at European contact.[16]

Archery was highly developed in Asia. The Sanskrit term for archery, dhanurveda, came to refer to martial arts in general. In East Asia, Goguryeo, one of the Three Kingdoms of Korea was well known for its regiments of exceptionally skilled archers.[17][18]"UNQUOTE.

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Old 11th February 2023, 02:20 AM   #4
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Worth recording some artwork here...and in the next post I will describe the effect of armour after being hit by hard tipped arrows...

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Old 11th February 2023, 07:43 PM   #5
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I wonder if the illustration of the various types of arrows shown in post #4 reflect the type's used in Long Bow arrows.
It is written that, those were mostly the Bodkin type, of heavy pointy square cross section, with great perforation power. Therefore, this type of arrow was used against heavy infantry or short-range cavalry. It is said that, these arrows were very effective against chainmail, however, they could bounce off plate armor if they didn't land perpendicular to the surface. They were relatively 'standardized' and mass produced; between 400,000 and 800,000 arrows were needed for a campaign.
The 3,500 arrows found in the wreckage of the Mary Rose measure between 61 and 81 cm (76 cm on average) and are cut from poplar or ash.



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Old 11th February 2023, 08:22 PM   #6
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The Long Bow in action in Shrewsbury (1403) and the skills of John Bradmore.


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Old 12th February 2023, 09:59 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fernando View Post
I wonder if the illustration of the various types of arrows shown in post #4 reflect the type's used in Long Bow arrows.
It is written that, those were mostly the Bodkin type, of heavy pointy square cross section, with great perforation power. Therefore, this type of arrow was used against heavy infantry or short-range cavalry. It is said that, these arrows were very effective against chainmail, however, they could bounce off plate armor if they didn't land perpendicular to the surface. They were relatively 'standardized' and mass produced; between 400,000 and 800,000 arrows were needed for a campaign.
The 3,500 arrows found in the wreckage of the Mary Rose measure between 61 and 81 cm (76 cm on average) and are cut from poplar or ash.



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Indeed the Bodkin ... Probably the least expensive and best overall performer seen here in the English box below with 8 other variants and in the bigger box European variants. Peter Hudson.
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Old 11th February 2023, 02:30 AM   #8
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Worth recording some artwork here...
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Old 11th February 2023, 10:16 AM   #9
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Worth mentioning that it took a lot of training and required important skill to be an effective longbow archer. Their training affected the physical composure of their bodies to the extent that their remains show signs of their training. The crossbow was an innovation in that it required less training and strength to use.
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Old 11th February 2023, 02:47 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Victrix View Post
... The crossbow was an innovation in that it required less training and strength to use.
Infinitely much less training indeed. However crossbow bolts departed with a rather higher power strenght; some armour could be perforated with them.Their handicap was the time they took to re-arm.



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Old 11th February 2023, 12:53 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Hudson View Post
...however the weapon originates in paleolithic times ...
Maybe my bad; i was only focusing on the thread topic, the English (or Welch) long bow and its influence in (low) Medieval warfare, not paleolithic bows.


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Old 20th October 2023, 09:36 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Hudson View Post
Reference
A http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...nt+arms+armour


Incredibly this weapon which comprises of two bits of wood and a length of string was like a machine gun when unleashed en masse on an enemy formation on land or aboard ships and was faster to reload and more devastating untill well after the advent of gunpowder.

I have designed this thread with a short starter as I have some interesting material to add as it rolls out to allow maximum input from members.

Regards,
Peter Hudson.
What do you mean by your statement that the english longbow 'comprises TWO bits of wood' ?
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Old 20th October 2023, 11:27 AM   #13
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Default two bits

Quote:
What do you mean by your statement that the english longbow 'comprises TWO bits of wood' ?
Answer:
A bow AND an arrow
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Old 21st October 2023, 03:20 AM   #14
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Dont forget the piece of string!! ..

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Old 5th November 2023, 05:50 PM   #15
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Default English Longbow Arrows.

Matt Easton looks at most details on the Longbow arrow. Please see https://uk.video.search.yahoo.com/yh...cc&action=view
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Old 9th November 2023, 07:09 PM   #16
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Default Steel Arrows.

These were produced in India...I wonder how effective these were on the battlefield?
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