Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Keris Warung Kopi

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 5th June 2014, 10:15 AM   #1
KLUNGKLUNG
Member
 
KLUNGKLUNG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 24
Default Palembang handle and selut

Dear all,

I have had the opportunity to purchase this small handsome Jawa Demam Palembang ukiran from ivory. This delicately shaped handle shows organic, roundings and 'true' birds eyes.
What puzzles me is the 'akik' stone on top of the head. It is encrusted in silver but not meant as a cover-up for a damaged peksi hole ( which has happened but more below). But I can't exclude another damage for which this application with semi-precious stones is done? Any explanation for it or just for decoration?
The selut did not come along but I have put them together which might not be matching but where does it come from?
Attached Images
    
KLUNGKLUNG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th June 2014, 12:26 PM   #2
ganjawulung
Member
 
ganjawulung's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: J a k a r t a
Posts: 985
Default

Dear Klungkung,

Old and nice carving of old Sumatran keris hilt. But the possibility is not Palembang, but perhaps between West Sumatra or Riau, Jambi. The material is elephant ivory, or "sea ivory"?

I have some examples of Sumatran Jawa Demam hilt. Palembang "pendokok" is very typical Palembang. Here are examples of my Palembang keris hilt. One made of old ivory, and the other is wooden hilt.

Ganjawulung
Attached Images
 
ganjawulung is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th June 2014, 02:16 PM   #3
Gustav
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 999
Default

Here a "cousin" of it - I also doubt, these quite small hilts would come directly from Palembang. My guess was the "upper class" of a Minang population close to Palembang.
Attached Images
    
Gustav is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th June 2014, 07:53 PM   #4
Sajen
Member
 
Sajen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 7,431
Default

Dear Klungkung,

your very nice handle could be Palembang or Minangkabau and maybe also Jambi. The stone is most proable a jimat but I think that the stone cover the natural nerv crevise of the material which I guess to be sperm whale tooth.
Look for example this hilt from my collection where you can see this "nerv crevise" uncovered.

Regards,
Detlef

PS: Forget: The pendokok is IMHO a Minangkabau pendokok.
Attached Images
   
Sajen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th June 2014, 11:50 PM   #5
ganjawulung
Member
 
ganjawulung's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: J a k a r t a
Posts: 985
Default Palembang

Hopefully, my understanding is not wrong. To my knowledge, style of Palembang carving, its "cukitan" (I don't know the Palembang term of "cukitan", I use common terminology in keris) was not too deep. But fine. Even very subtle. In contrast to Madura, which its cukitan is usually deep. Just possibly, the equipment used to carve different. They use different types of knives. Also Java carving, usually deeper carved than Palembang...

Ganjawulung
Attached Images
 
ganjawulung is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th June 2014, 10:22 AM   #6
Jean
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,602
Default

Pak Ganja,
Is this small hilt with a fine & superficial carving but in a different style originating from Palembang in your opinion?
Best regards
Attached Images
  
Jean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th June 2014, 11:12 AM   #7
kai
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,763
Default

Hello Carla,

Quote:
What puzzles me is the 'akik' stone on top of the head. It is encrusted in silver but not meant as a cover-up for a damaged peksi hole ( which has happened but more below). But I can't exclude another damage for which this application with semi-precious stones is done? Any explanation for it or just for decoration?
I'm sure it's not an original decoration. If (smaller) stones are inserted, these don't break the flow of lines. There are a few bits of the carving broken off a long time ago and I guess that this later addition is to cover more extensive damage to the top of the hilt.

I'm with the others that this is a Minang hilt with quite typical carving work. This type of hilt often comes with a cup-shaped selut and slender stem. Your Minang selut might also do for the time being.

Regards,
Kai
kai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th June 2014, 11:28 AM   #8
kai
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,763
Default

Hello Jean,

How large is this hilt?

The selut is Minang. The hilt doesn't look like Palembang to me.

Actually, I feel that the Palembang carving is pretty deep, especially if you consider the very narrow crevices cut into the material. I believe Ganja was referring to the kinda 2-dimensional appearance of the "crowded" Palembang carving while the Minang carving gives a more 3-dimensional effect due to more material being cut away between the floral and other elements. Also the overall shape tends to be more rigid/blocky in Palembang JD hilts while Minang and others show more rounded shapes.

Regards,
Kai
kai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th June 2014, 11:49 AM   #9
Jean
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,602
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kai
Hello Jean,

How large is this hilt?

The selut is Minang. The hilt doesn't look like Palembang to me.

Actually, I feel that the Palembang carving is pretty deep, especially if you consider the very narrow crevices cut into the material. I believe Ganja was referring to the kinda 2-dimensional appearance of the "crowded" Palembang carving while the Minang carving gives a more 3-dimensional effect due to more material being cut away between the floral and other elements. Also the overall shape tends to be more rigid/blocky in Palembang JD hilts while Minang and others show more rounded shapes.

Regards,
Kai
Hello Kai,
This hilt is very small (6 cm high). I agree that this piece is probably not from Palembang but from where then? The selut was not original to the piece.
Thank you and regards
Jean
Jean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th January 2015, 10:12 AM   #10
T. Koch
Member
 
T. Koch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Mother North
Posts: 189
Default

Hi guys!

I'm late to the table here - found the topic while going through the Palembang-posts of the forum. IMO Detlef is probably spot-on: The insert has been done to cover up the natural pulp cavity of the tooth. I have a Madurese "Donoriko" hilt from sperm whale in my collection, with the tooth mounted upside down, so that the cavity is sutuated right at the crown of the hilt. To accomodate this, a seperate piece has been carved with okir and set into the cavity with small ivory pins.

I think this was done, because keris hilts typically are wider at the top and the tooth of course wider at the base.

Detlef, I would say that your's is probably carved from hippopotamus tusk: The pulp cavity in sperm whale teeth is, in my experience, "always" lenticular in shape. Your's is half-moon shaped, like that of hippo tusk and it seems in your last picture, that the TIZ continues over the figure's left ear and down his shoulder?

Great pieces both of them btw!!


Best wishes, - Thor
T. Koch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th January 2015, 12:28 PM   #11
Sajen
Member
 
Sajen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 7,431
Default

Hello Thor,

thank you for confirming my guess! Frankly said I was a little bit surprised that nobody before took it in consideration that this will be the reason.
Thank you also for the hint that the material of my hilt could be from hippotamus ivory, good observation!

Best regards,
Detlef
Sajen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th January 2015, 04:31 AM   #12
Battara
EAAF Staff
 
Battara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 6,830
Default

Coming the party late as well, I was thinking of the stones on top. I agree probably covering for the hippo core hole, I noticed that they are "milky" quartz. This is common in Indonesia, but would there also be a talismanic or spiritual meaning behind the use of this type of stone?
Battara is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th January 2015, 09:02 PM   #13
A. G. Maisey
Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 5,887
Default

I do not know the answer to this question, however, I have a finger ring that is set with white chalcedony.

According to several Balinese people this white stone is protection against danger.

In Jawa turquoise has the talismanic value of distancing one from danger.

Jade will protect against broken bones if you happen to fall.

Agates have varying talismanic qualities depending on the type of agate and the natural motif.
A. G. Maisey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th January 2015, 12:17 AM   #14
David
Keris forum moderator
 
David's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 6,383
Default

I think it is a fair bet that certain precious and semi-precious stones have talismanic and spiritual properties in just about ANY culture around the world so i would image that some thought is always put into it when they are employed in such a manner.
David is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 05:42 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.