Shotley Bridge swordmakers

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Thank you for your post ...Can you outline which details are spurious although you probably refer to notes in the references perhaps also linked to the secretive nature of the German originators...?
What is your description of the two photographs please?
One or both is Nicholas Oley last surviving member of the Swordmakers from http://www.geocities.ws/lacbillj/shotley.html oh I see your post above... OK.

Below are some other ethnographics...The Children actually standing on the Shotley Bridge..The Swordmakers house on wood street visible from the Bridge...with what is the old flour mill behind it.

Harvey Withers notes at http://harveywithers.co.uk/the-sword-in-britain-1600-1700-a-brief-history/Quote"At the end of the 17th Century, immigrant German sword makers also established an extensive sword making community in Shotley Bridge, County Durham, in the north of the country. The abundance of iron ore deposits and the fast flowing River Derwent created the ideal conditions for sword production. It was here that we see the development of a hollow ground or triangular blade that greatly enhanced the strength and durability of smallswords."Unquote.

I do note however that a lot of raw material was imported...

[Jim McDougall]

Hi Keith,
Thank you for adding additional detail and comments as well as the pictures. As I mentioned, I have researched on these topics off and on since about the 70s (my copy of Aylward I have had since around 1976), and the complexities of the English and German swordsmiths have been at the fore many times. In those days there were no computers or web, and research was slow mail, book search with stores and inter library loan processes.

Still, material was to be found, though the very nature of most of the Hounslow, Hollow Sword Blade Co and of course Shotley Bridge relied on information at hand in old accounts and much of it quite controversial.
Inevitably there are misperceptions, misinformation, and perhaps even deliberately altered or contrived versions of data which became lodged in these accounts.

With the web we can now recheck and cross reference material, and I will say that Ibrahiim is one of our most tenacious searchers in online material. Some may prove less than accurate as we evaluate and discover more, but I do not believe most to be spurious, but as with much at hand, some less accurate than others.

Turning to the blades of Shotley Bridge, I think there are some misconceptions as I look at Aylward (1945, p.33),

"...such Shotley Bridge swords are commonly seen as big double edged weapons bearing the words SHOTLEY BRIDGE in their fullers, and fitted with the 'Walloon hilts' used by cavalry in the Monmouth Rebellion and Marlborough campaign periods, but as the factory always claimed to specialize in 'hollow' blades, small swords mounted with their productions may exist, though it does not seem that the tang marks which might identify them are known.
It looks as if the company imported forgings from Solingen which it ground, tempered and finished in Shotley".

Here I would note that the notion of Walloon type swords for these campaigns would not have been produced at Shotley Bridge which does not seem to have begun until around 1687, but then more likely at Hounslow, which seems to have ceased around 1658. However, the Hounslow mills seem to be more focused on hangers, naval types in particular.

The 'Hollow Sword Blade Co.'was formed as noted earlier in 1688, but did not charter and begin bringing in blades until 1691, apparently to mount rapier blades from the Continent.
Aylward notes (op.cit. p.36),
"...as we deduce from the name, the Hollow Sword Blade Co.' the qualities of the blade with THREE HOLLOWED FACES were beginning to find appreciation, and there is no doubt that cutlers were mounting them, though principally for duelist customers".

On p. 39, Aylward notes that these triple edged (or 'hollow') blades were characteristic of the smallsword. These were of course becoming very popular in place of rapiers.

While the Hollow Sword Blade Co. in name faltered as this was in fact a ruse to operate as a bank for the schemes of the South Sea Company with trade and slaves to South America and real estate confiscations in Ireland.
Shotley Bridge as a sword making entity apparently remained active in some fashion as late as 1808, as Aylward lists names of makers there that late.

Apparantly the mill was closed in 1702 after the arrest of Hermann Mohll for importing German blades (I believe these were the 'hollow' blades) and reopened in 1716 ...his son William sold to Robert Oley in 1724. I think this is when the business moved to Birmingham outside London (in 1690 there was a warehouse at the sign of the Five Beds in a London warehouse at New Street near Shoe Lane operated by the Shotley Bridge group).

It does not seem that the small sword blades were marked to Shotley, or anyone else as they were imported either finished or ground there.
It also seems that small swords were primarily furbished by jewelers or such outfitters who obtained blades at these kinds of outlets.

I am curious now that I think of it, of the Birmingham maker Samuel Harvey who produced hangers and sword blades around mid 18th c. He used a running wolf with the initials SH enclosed as a blade mark. It seems some have suggested 'SH' (= Shotley?) or more plausibly his own initials.
Interesting though.......the running wolf used at Hounslow and by the Shotley Bridge makers......though not seen after 17th c. maybe this was to recall those makers in a spurious application?

[Jim McDougall]

Keith, I just noticed your previous post in which we crossed posts.
It is truly puzzling on the existence of blade producing in Shotley Bridge even in the mid 18th century let alone the 19th. The only swords I have seen marked SHOTLEY BRIDG are of 17th c.
As I mentioned Samuel Harvey using the fox/wolf, I find that many of his swords are simply marked HARVEY or SH, without fox. In those times about mid 18th c. there were only several makers producing swords for the govt. and they were in Birmingham. By the 1780s and into the early years of the 19th there were what became known as the 'sword scandals' concerning the quality of British blades and profound import of German blades. The key proponents were Thomas Gill; James Wooley and Henry Osborne. Until 1790s there were few other blade makers, and JJ Runkel was a German importing blades there in London.

It seems possible that small sword blades were either produced or finished at Shotley Bridge, but although Aylward names makers there, it seems odd more is not mentioned. In checking "The Rapier and Smallsword 1400-1820" AVB Norman, there is entirely no mention of Shotley Bridge nor Hollow Sword Blade Co.; also in "Schools and Masters of Fence" by Egerton Castle, 1885, no mention of any of these.

If these three entities were indeed prevalent or even present in producing swords for fence or dueling after the earlier period of around late 17th c. Aylward mentions, they would have been mentioned in these highly detailed sources.

Egerton Castle does mention the triangular blades (op. cit. p.238),
"...about the period of the Restoration the triangular fluted blade came into fashion in England, having been first adopted by the French between 1650-1660".

Clearly the triangular blade seemed a good prospect to create the Hollow Sword Blade Co., but the term 'hollow' seems to have totally escaped writers of the times, leading to the nonsensical notions which were later perpetuated by Victorian writers into 'sword lore'.

On April 10th, 2012 in one of our discussions, Ibrahiim found and posted this:
from "Statistical and Social Inquiry Society of Ireland" concerning the confiscated lands in Jacobite situations.
By T.U.Sadlier, Fri. 21 April, 1933, on the Hollow Sword Blade Co.,
"...engaged in the manufacture of sword blades hollowed out to contain a quantity of mercury, which falling to the inside of the point at every blow, gave added force to the stroke".

This illustrates the kind of fanciful nonsense often created by writers in earlier times, particularly the Victorian period, and this example most certainly constitutes the kind of spurious material often among data collected on these topics. It is included simply to offer perspective to the misunderstanding of the term 'hollow' as to sword blades.

Truly a great subject, and hope we can find more on just how long the Shotley Bridge entity really DID exist; why they do not appear in any blade making lists after 17th c. and what kind of blades did they produce (or import)?

[urbanspaceman]

Hello Folks. You've got me off to a splendid start; I only hope my notes have enough order to allow my answering your questions. So, beginning at the start with those 'spurious' details Ibrahiim asked about, as I feel they are universally misused:
there is conclusive evidence that there were Germans in the immediate neighbourhood at least sixty years earlier, for the first legible entry in the oldest Ebchester register is of the following: “Eleanor, the daughter of Matthias Wrightson Oley, baptised 1628.”
From: Monthly Chronicle of North-Country Lore and Legend. Vol II, No. 15. May 1888.

I'm afraid the chronicler was over excited by this piece of evidence and didn't examine it more closely (given the date, he may well have needed decent spectacles) as it isn't 'Oley' but an abbreviation denominating a church position: cl lic. which he had believed was ollie. Matthias Wrightson was curate at that church.
A great pity, as it had given me a reason for the choice of location because, let's face it, there's nothing at Shotley Bridge that can't be found at hundreds of alternate locations around the UK and, equally, probably far better known. So I had to start again and try to figure out why SB.
There are two names that I believe are responsible for the choice of location: Bertrams and Vintings. I further understand that they were well versed in iron ore mining and smelting due to their lineage – which I have yet to establish in fact, but my working hypothesis is that they are descended from the "ingenious artisans (whom 'Humphries and Shute' brought over when the Charter of the Mines Royal was granted to them in 1565) at the head of twenty foreign labourers. They had exclusive patents to dig and search for various metals and to refine the same in England and Ireland; and that three years afterwards, the charter was extended when the Duke of Norfolk and others were added to the governors and the whole was styled “The Society of the Mineral and Battery Works."
From: Monthly Chronicle of North-Country Lore and Legend. Vol II, No. 15. May 1888.

I've got to find out where these chaps came from – and why; although iron ore mining and smelting had been going on in the Derwent valley since BCE, and would become the biggest in Europe with the arrival of Sir Ambrose Crowley.

Then, having lost my idealised beginning, I lost my perfect ending, because (see Robert Wilkinson-Latham) there is definitely no connection between Mohll of SB and Mole of Birmingham; as much as everyone up here would like to believe that the SB enterprise ultimately culminated in Wilkinson's Sword. The fact that we had a WS factory up here on Tyneside, and that they had SB swords in a glass case in their reception, lent weight to the fallacy but, sadly, fallacy it is.

I am going to throw two facts into the pot now:
firstly, The Earl of Derwentwater was the local aristo, the big job around those parts, and he was a notorious Jacobite: lost his head in the Tower as a result.
Secondly, in 1815, during the Napoleonic wars, much diligent searching was going on looking for infiltrators, and during a search of Danby Castle (on the North York Moors) they found a chest hidden in a secret compartment in a chimney: a chest of swords apparently intended for the Jacobite army with blades made in Shotley Bridge.
Add to the above the business of Mohll's possession of chests of blades on his arrest, when his ship was searched for Scottish and Irish soldiers (i.e. Jacobites) and I am coming to the conclusion that Hollow Blades was a ruse based on the prevailing popular fashion of the time to disguise the real earner i.e. military blades.
I need to look into the lives of the two Londoners who teamed up with John Sanford from Newcastle and Johannes Dell (Johnathan bell) of Hounslow fame, to form the first enterprise at SB in 1685 with Peter Henekels and Heinrich Hoppe. Remember, these chaps moved to Oxford with their king – Charles Ist.

Here's something I'm stuck on that maybe someone can clarify: does anyone know who – in England – invented this machine?
1830-3 the invention of a roll-forge for blades which Mr. Fritz Weyersberg saw in England. He then purchased the patent and the forge was introduced to and implemented in Solingen. With this machine, which still exists today at WKC, he was able to forge multiple blades in a short space in time.
Tbc.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Thanks Jim on that detail of the Hollow Blade Company to which I refer readers to http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1179/tns.1934.012 an account of the spurious story outlined therein.

View the amazing underhand dealings that occurred with this company at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollow..._Blade_Company

In an apparently unrelated article I discovered interesting facts on the Sword Makers obscurely...please see ; The swordmakers of Shotley Bridge from an angling association website http://www.derwentangling.co.uk/abou...o-flow-part-2/

Quote"1687 heralded the arrival of the swordmakers from Solingen in West Germany. The names of these refugees’ families were recorded as Oley, Vooz, Mole and Bertram. There are a couple of theories behind their arrival, one being religious persecution, but there is no evidence to support them having being expelled from Germany for being Protestant. Nevertheless it still remains the most popular theory as to why they came to such a remote village under a veil of secrecy. The second and on the face of it more likely explanation was the introduction of new machinery which was threatening the livelihood of some of the Solingen swordmakers. So it is possible that it was simply time to move on.

In 1831, a Newcastle man visiting the works was told that their German forefathers were brought to Shotley Bridge by a company of gentlemen with the licence of Government as a commercial venture. This seems plausible and there is evidence connecting John Sandford and John Bell of Newcastle to the company at that time. Both men being of this area, they would have known the suitability of the River Derwent for siting a steel works on account of it having soft water as well as the excellent mill stone grit in the riverbed which was also very good for sharpening the blades. Indeed, on certain stones today it’s still possible to see grooves left by “slipping” and tempering of the precious blades. So there were obvious reasons for them to build their shops and houses near the river. Perhaps the most important reason though was that the Derwent was a fast running river, so ideal for operating and driving the mills. The nearby woods were also a perfect source of wood to make charcoal for the furnaces. And transportation was no problem, with a road down the valley to Derwenthaugh and Newcastle, then on to markets in London and Europe by sea.


Forge Cottage
The quality of their product far surpassed the inferior English swords. At the time, the troubled reign of James II was in progress and a civil war a distinct possibility, so maybe they thought they could supply both sides with swords. The Hollow Blade Sword Company was formed, the hollow blade sword having a hollow inner with three flat sides; this meant with their combined lightness and rigidity the sword point could be bent back to the hilt, then when released would spring back to its original shape. The company was later renamed The Sword Blade Bank. The new company stuttered through the 18th century, but gained a new lease of life with the outbreak of the Napoleonic Wars, which proved very lucrative. But when the war ended in 1815, the final decline began, with the development of other steel-making towns in Sheffield and Birmingham. Nevertheless the swordmaking industry continued in Shotley Bridge until 1840, ran by Joseph Oley (a former committee member of the Derwent Angling Association) who later became an auctioneer in the village for 50 years. Living to almost a hundred years of age, he was buried in 1896 alongside other members of his family, Richard and Christopher, in Ebchester parish church yard. On his headstone is the inscription: ‘The last of the Shotley Bridge sword makers’. The swordmakers’ buildings in Wood Street remained until just a few years ago, only being demolished to make way for a new terrace row which bears their name.



The sword in the hat

Many stories have been passed down over the years about the swordmakers of Shotley Bridge. On one occasion, Robert Oley became involved in a wager with eight of the top swordmakers in the country as to who could manufacture the best, most flexible blade. A meeting was set for two weeks to the day. When Oley appeared at the meeting place with no sword in his hand, the other swordmakers declared him the loser of the bet. Whereupon he took off his hat and threw it on the table. There for all to see, inside the hat coiled around the rim, was a double edge sword, and he was instantly declared the winner. He then offered his winnings to anyone who could remove it from the hat, but of course it was so tightly wound that no one could.

Another story was that a member of the Oley family travelled to London in the early 19th century to take part in a competition to produce the finest sword in all of England. Oley won the crown for his sword and The Sword Inn in the heart of Shotley Bridge was renamed The Crown and Crossed Swords in his honour. This pub plays a large part in the local community and is now the headquarters of the Derwent Angling Association. Some of these excellent swords are preserved and line the walls in Hamsterley Hall, home of the former Lord Gort. Some of the descendants of those first swordmaking families can trace their roots back to razorblade giant Wilkinson Sword, while some members of the Mole family moved to Birmingham and continued their business a few years longer. In 1889, Robert Mole and Sons was bought out and absorbed into Wilkinsons of Pall Mall, although not actually taken over until 1920. Wilkinson Sword (International) Ltd, chiefly noted for the production of safety razors and razor blades, still has a production plant in Solingen. The crossed swords proudly adorn the company logo, maintaining the link with their swordmaking heritage."Unquote.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Here is a further site expanding on the general dispute over the whole issue and goings on with the Shotley Bridge Swordmakers...

https://www.goodreads.com/author_blo...-john-g-bygate

See also page 34 of https://oldswords.com/articles/Small...ibles-v1i1.pdf

[urbanspaceman]

I'm afraid my contributions are coming out of sequence due to the moderator needing to pre-view; I'll need to allow longer gaps before I post.

[urbanspaceman]

With reference for my request for information about the roll-forge still at use in WKC Solingen: I spoke to Andre Willms at WKC and he referred me to the Klingenmuseum in Solingen, but unfortunately they were not able to help either. Somebody must know!

[urbanspaceman]

sorry, posted this prematurely; still getting used to the system and only wanted to preview not submit.

[urbanspaceman]

I gather Richard H. Bezdek passed away recently; and going by the one publication of his that I have acquired, I have to declare it is a tremendous loss to the sword collecting community.
So I want to do two things here (and Mr Moderator, if I am breaking forum rules please forgive me and delete, then I will know not to make the same mistake again), first, to acknowledge just how much work the man did in this field; and second, to clarify the beginnings of the Shotley Bridge endeavours - following my indication in an earlier post that it began with Johannes Dell (Bell), Peter Henekels and Heinrich Hoppe in 1685.
I will now quote from Mr Bezdek's book, because he has collated the odds and ends of information I had previously discovered quite perfectly, and if I had read his book first I could have saved myself a lot of searching:
Swords and Swordmakers of England and Scotland.
It all started when Sir John Heyden, while on a diplomatic mission in Holland (probably Rotterdam) on behalf of King Charles I, encountered some German swordsmiths. The Germans were supposedly refugees fleeing from the terrors of the Thirty Years War. He persuaded some of them to immigrate to England and work under royal patronage.
These swordsmiths were members of several sword-related crafts from Solingen, including Schwertschmeides (swordsmiths), Klingenschmieldes (bladesmiths/blade forgers), Schwertschleifer (sword/blade grinders), Schwertfegers (sword/blade polishers), and Schwertharters (sword/blade hardeners).
The route to England from Solingen went through the Netherlands and coastal Holland to Rotterdum and then to London. That is why many documents of the time referred to the Solingen Germans who immigrated to England as Dutch and why they called their blades “Dutch” blades.
The leading Germans who set up blade mills were bladesmiths of some stature in Solingen (i.e., guild members) who employed other Germans.
The following German bladesmiths (probably blade mill owners) signed their blades:
• Peter Munsten the Younger (changed name to Peter English), c. 1629–1642
• Johann Kindt (Kinndt, Kennett), c. 1629–1659
• Johannes Hoppe (Hoppie) the Younger, c. 1633–1642
• Caspar Karn (Carnis), c. 1629–1642
• Clemens (Clamas) Meigen, c. 1629–1642
• Caspar Fleiseh, c. 1629–1642
• Johannes Dell (Bell), c. 1649–1685
Other known German swordsmiths and bladesmiths working in Hounslow were:
• Johann Konigs (Connyne), c. 1629–1642
• Clemens Horn the Younger, c.1629–1642
• Ceile Herder, c. 1649–1659
• Peter Henekels (Henkell), c. 1660–1685
• Johannes Meigen, c. 1629–1642
• Heinrich (Henry) Hoppe (Hoppie) the Elder, c.1629–1642
• Joseph Hoppe Hoppie, c. 1629–1642
When the parliamentary forces took over the Hounslow sword and blade center in 1642, they confiscated the mills of the German bladesmiths obedient to the king. The only bladesmiths to remain obedient to the parliamentary forces were the Germans Johann Kindt (Kinndt), Ceile Herder and Johannes Dell (Bell); and Englishman Henry Risby.
The other German bladesmiths followed King Charles I to his new headquarters at Oxford, where they would have worked at the blade mill at Glouster Hall, Oxford, or the sword mill at Wolvercote, near Oxford. They were Peter Munsten (English) the Younger, Caspar Fleisch, Clemens Horn the Younger, Johannes Hoppe (Hoppie) the Younger, Heinrich (Henry) Hoppe (Hoppie) the Elder, Johannes Meigen, Clemens (Clames) Meigen, and Caspar Karn (Carnis).
OK, back to me:
The perspicacious amongst you will note the absence of Peter Henekels; an oversight probably or... where was he before he showed up at Shotley Bridge? It's just such little mysteries that have me chasing red herrings but occasionally turning up interesting facts along the way.
Respect, Mr. Bezdek.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by urbanspaceman

With reference for my request for information about the roll-forge still at use in WKC Solingen: I spoke to Andre Willms at WKC and he referred me to the Klingenmuseum in Solingen, but unfortunately they were not able to help either. Somebody must know!

Keith, in trying to respond to this I have to admit I am not familiar with metal working processes, so unclear what a 'roll forge' is. However, it seems possible that the 'rolling mill' might be what is meant?

The rolling mill was apparently around in England with Henry Cort and Funtley iron mills near Fareham, England with a patent around 1783. There seem to have been uses of this in Sweden earlier (1760s) and probably earlier. These apparently roll forged steel into the thinner stock for blades.

This further seems to have been known even as early as mid 17th century, as Robert Porter of Birmingham had a mill which supplied as many as 15,000 blades to Parliamentary forces in 1642. This in addition to the blades produced in Hounslow.
q.v. "The Making of Birmingham" Robert K. Dent (1894) p. 147, notes there were 'slitting and rolling' mills in several locations, including Digbeth, which was where Robert Porter had his mill. It states he converted his corn mill into a 'blade mill'.

The Royalist forces destroyed his mill after Edgehill (1643). However his son seems to have continued in Birmingham with blades as in 1686 he approached the Cutlers Company for approval.

In Aylward (1945, p.32) it is noted that the Hollow Sword Co. backed by Lord Dartmouth "...had a rolling mill at Hounslow, but in spite of this it petitioned for a patent for the importation, trial and marking of blades".
(this from "The Shotley Bridge Sword Blade Co." Appleby-Miller, 1943)

Interesting that this entry alludes to the Hollow Sword Co. which we know was centered at Shotley Bridge, but mentions a rolling mill at Hounslow. Hounslow by 1672 was in complete shambles by then, so why mention it as a viable mill for blades? Further it is clear that blades were to be brought in to be finished.

It sounds as if Birmingham production was pretty sound in these times, but their blades were not highly favored if I recall other notes.

Aylward (p.33) claims that small swords of Shotley Bridge may exist but none have tang marks which might identify them, and that it seems that the company imported forgings from Solingen which were ground, tempered and finished at Shotley. He provides lists of the makers there from Henry Hooper (Hoppe?) 1687; Adam Oley 1692; includes others Mohl and Oley and through the 18th century, with William Oley last in 1808.
Hermann Mohl is listed as a grinder 1687-1717.
Remember he is the one arrested with chests of blades in 1703 from Holland (Solingen blades) suggesting this practice of importation was right.

It does not seem that iron deposits or smelting were key to the location chosen for the Shotley premises, as the 'cementation' process required iron ore of higher quality, which was imported from Sweden to the port at Newcastle.

Regarding the case of Solingen, they apparently depended greatly on Swedish iron as well, though the deposits near there were high in manganese needed for pliable blades. Beech forests provided well for the carbon needed.
It seems there are mixed reviews on the actual production, the materials etc. so more work needed.

So why Shotley? Hounslow was still extant in some degree in 1672 and had mills, so why not refurbish it? Birmingham was active in production, but were their blades disfavored?
If Shotley and the Hollow Blade scam were just a front, why are Shotley makers listed through the entire 18th c. and why even into the 19th?

The rolling mills were introduced in Solingen in 1847.......Burton went there in 1860s and they were still using hammer and anvil. Why did the most industrious blade making center in the world not have these 'rolling mills' until mid 19th c. when it seems they were around early in the 17th and in England?

The more I read on these conundrums the more questions!