Batak Tunggal panaluan, Indonesian Magic or Shaman Staffs

milandro · 17th February 2023, 11:51 AM

I had a look around to find more information of these Tunggal panaluan, fro the Batak people, but, to my surprise, I haven't found much.

they are Indonesian Magic or Shaman Staffs , used by the village shamans, some are very large indeed and really look like small totems poles.

I am looking at one with the possibility to purchase and would like to research the matter and these objects. I know they are not too unusual in the NL but apparently not too many (or any) have been discussed here, in any case not that I could find them with several repeated search actions.

Are there such collectors among us?

Sajen · 17th February 2023, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milandro

I had a look around to find more information of these Tunggal panaluan, fro the Batak people, but, to my surprise, I haven't found much.

they are Indonesian Magic or Shaman Staffs , used by the village shamans, some are very large indeed and really look like small totems poles.

I am looking at one with the possibility to purchase and would like to research the matter and these objects. I know they are not too unusual in the NL but apparently not too many (or any) have been discussed here, in any case not that I could find them with several repeated search actions.

Are there such collectors among us?

I know that the real antique ones are horrible expensive so I never bought one but have handled a few. They are very expressive!
Sorry that I can't be from great help!

Regards,
Detlef

Sajen · 17th February 2023, 01:30 PM

Pictures taken from the net!

kai · 17th February 2023, 03:21 PM

I can just repeat what I already stated in the main forum:
Batak is a quagmire!

The first tourist pieces got already produced during the second half of the 19th century, i.e. about 150 years ago. Thus, these souvenirs for colonial visitors are legitimate antiques and the better examples are not easy to discern.

Even if carved by Batak craftsmen, one can see that skills got lost during the long period and the cultural changes of all Batak groups associated with colonization and missionary activities. There even were Chinese factories in Medan producing this stuff. They obviously catered to the taste of their buyers and you even see wild "exotic" mixtures of, for example, Batak and Nias styles in a single item!

When looking at major museum collections, allow for a considerable amount of their holdings being not genuine and never meant for actual use in the originating cultures.

Some of the later pieces are actually well carved and collectible in their own right. Just don't buy into any seller's stories nor pay inflated prices!

Regards,
Kai

milandro · 17th February 2023, 04:56 PM

I suppose that the matter of authenticity can be seen in may many different ways.

I think that this is particularly true of so called " primitive arts".

A friend of mine, whom, at some point, had a considerable ethnographic collection centred on Indonesia and Africa always told me that he wouldn't be able to say in no uncertain terms that , for example, that all his gold weights from Ghana were all very old.

The 19th century was the beginning of the era in which a larger portion of the people of some means in the "Western World" ( for lack of a better word in this context) started to be exposed to this kind of items which, previously, had been reserved to royalty, gentry or extremely wealthy collectors.

Even a commoner (sic!

) and a, relatively wealthy, bourgeois could start filling his curiosity cabinet with some exotic items.

And they did.

So from that time onwards there was no shortage of people from the countries where these things came from, who were willing to produce these items and part with it against a reasonable price either to be sent around the world or sold to visiting tourists.

But, and here comes the contentious part, if the item was produced by the people it originally came from and it was well made, according to traditional methods and could even be used by the concerned people themselves within that cultural context, would the fact that they were" modernly made" make them any less valid as an ethnographic object?

I am not yet the owner of such a staff but if I will be I will probably discover that it is not an " antique " even if it may be 100 or more years old and even if it was made by the Bataks. But does this make it any lesser a good object?

17th February 2023, 11:51 AM	#1
milandro Member Join Date: Jan 2022 Location: Netherlands Posts: 419	Batak Tunggal panaluan, Indonesian Magic or Shaman Staffs I had a look around to find more information of these Tunggal panaluan, fro the Batak people, but, to my surprise, I haven't found much. they are Indonesian Magic or Shaman Staffs , used by the village shamans, some are very large indeed and really look like small totems poles. I am looking at one with the possibility to purchase and would like to research the matter and these objects. I know they are not too unusual in the NL but apparently not too many (or any) have been discussed here, in any case not that I could find them with several repeated search actions. Are there such collectors among us?

17th February 2023, 01:30 PM	#3
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,497	Pictures taken from the net! Attached Images

17th February 2023, 04:56 PM	#5
milandro Member Join Date: Jan 2022 Location: Netherlands Posts: 419	I suppose that the matter of authenticity can be seen in may many different ways. I think that this is particularly true of so called " primitive arts". A friend of mine, whom, at some point, had a considerable ethnographic collection centred on Indonesia and Africa always told me that he wouldn't be able to say in no uncertain terms that , for example, that all his gold weights from Ghana were all very old. The 19th century was the beginning of the era in which a larger portion of the people of some means in the "Western World" ( for lack of a better word in this context) started to be exposed to this kind of items which, previously, had been reserved to royalty, gentry or extremely wealthy collectors. Even a commoner (sic!) and a, relatively wealthy, bourgeois could start filling his curiosity cabinet with some exotic items. And they did. So from that time onwards there was no shortage of people from the countries where these things came from, who were willing to produce these items and part with it against a reasonable price either to be sent around the world or sold to visiting tourists. But, and here comes the contentious part, if the item was produced by the people it originally came from and it was well made, according to traditional methods and could even be used by the concerned people themselves within that cultural context, would the fact that they were" modernly made" make them any less valid as an ethnographic object? I am not yet the owner of such a staff but if I will be I will probably discover that it is not an " antique " even if it may be 100 or more years old and even if it was made by the Bataks. But does this make it any lesser a good object?

17th February 2023, 03:21 PM	#4
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,219	I can just repeat what I already stated in the main forum: Batak is a quagmire! The first tourist pieces got already produced during the second half of the 19th century, i.e. about 150 years ago. Thus, these souvenirs for colonial visitors are legitimate antiques and the better examples are not easy to discern. Even if carved by Batak craftsmen, one can see that skills got lost during the long period and the cultural changes of all Batak groups associated with colonization and missionary activities. There even were Chinese factories in Medan producing this stuff. They obviously catered to the taste of their buyers and you even see wild "exotic" mixtures of, for example, Batak and Nias styles in a single item! When looking at major museum collections, allow for a considerable amount of their holdings being not genuine and never meant for actual use in the originating cultures. Some of the later pieces are actually well carved and collectible in their own right. Just don't buy into any seller's stories nor pay inflated prices! Regards, Kai