Kris for coments ... please

fernando · 12th February 2008, 08:34 PM

Inevitable fatalities

I started by thinking i could do a good business over this piece, as its owner wanted to get rid of it, because his wife didn't like the "monsters" on the hilt and scabbard

I took it home to picture it and post it here, to check whether this was a tourist item or rather an interesting example, collecting wise.
But when i got home, i dropped it on the stairs and broke some bits of the scabbard. So it appears that i really have to buy this kris from the guy, no matter for what price, as i don't have the guts to return it.
Would you Gentlemen give me some input on this specimen ? This is the first one i wil have and i know nothing about these pieces.
I hope it is some old, something i favour the most.
All i can guess is that, apart from some broken parts on the blade base, its collar ( mendak ? ) is missing, but i suppose these parts can be bought, right ?
Sorry for the long story.
Thanks a lot.
Fernando

A. G. Maisey · 12th February 2008, 08:42 PM

We often hear of "tourist keris", but we do not often see them.

This one is the real deal. A genuine Balinese Tourist Keris.

The dress is probably from around the 1970's, the blade is old, but has lost its gonjo.Dress quality is remarkably poor for this type of keris, sometimes the carving on these scabbards and handles can be excellent, which makes them worth keeping, but sadly, this one is not.

David · 12th February 2008, 10:28 PM

I don't know Alan, i see this particular type of Bali "tourist" dress quite often on ePray. I agree that the carving is not good, but frankly i have seen much worse for this type.
I am also a bit confused that you would refer to this as a "genuine Balinese Tourist Keris". Obviously this is so for the dress, but the blade isn't what i would think to be deemed "tourist" quality, though it is, as noted, unfortunately missing it's gonjo. I have often seen in this style dress the blades cut from blanks that then have a fake pamor painted on them. That would seem to me to be the ultimate in genuine "tourist" variety.

Fernando, i am sorry that you feel that you must now buy this keris. If the gonjo was intact and the price was right you could consider re-dressing this keris. As is i would probably pass on it if i could.

fernando · 12th February 2008, 11:03 PM

Thank you Alan, for your sincerity.
Thank you David, for your support.
I will try and get rid of the thing; even if have to pay it or partly pay it, i will push it back to the guy.
Comparing to the quality i now know it is of, the broken little parts, which i have glued back, will not diminish its intrinsic value.
All the best
Fernando

A. G. Maisey · 12th February 2008, 11:13 PM

Yeah David, there are a lot of them around, and they were put together specifically for tourists, which makes them a genuine tourist item.

The early ones used genuine old blades, which were sometimes pretty fair. I think it might have been during the 1980's that the pieces of acid-etched flat-iron started to appear, I don't seem to remember that stuff from the 1960's and 1970's.

The etched flat-iron, the old genuine blades, the current era better quality blades, are only something to hang the carving on, which is what the tourists buy--- all they really want is a holiday memento to hang on the wall, and 99.9% of these people couldn't tell the difference between a real blade and etched flat-iron anyway.

You're right of course, there are examples of this type that are infinitely worse than this one, but there are a few that are of superior quality workmanship. This one is just somewhere in the middle, which in my opinion makes it pretty poor.

If you're committed to it Fernando, you could make a gonjo for it, and try to do something about reasonable dress, but depending on how much you need to pay for this keris, that might not be economically viable, as it could finish up costing more than its worth.

fernando · 13th February 2008, 12:40 AM

Now that i am disenchanted, i don't feel i will keep it in any condition. Besides, it doesn't make much sense to try and save this piece, being the first one i would owe and having no specific reason to do it. Besides, there are no specialists over here and its price it not so famous. I notice there is a nice ( authentic ) kris at the swap forum which, given the dollar low ratio, costs even less than this funny thing.
No doubt it was a bad move from my side.
Fernando

A. G. Maisey · 13th February 2008, 02:42 AM

Don't let it worry you Fernando---you should see some of the mistakes I made when I was learning. I reckon I could pay for three Phd.'s with what I blew on errors in my early days. Bad buys are just part of the learning experience---but if nobody ever tells us we've made a mistake, we never learn.
The approach of paying the owner compensation for any damage you might have done could well be your wisest move, if you are permitted to do that.

fernando · 13th February 2008, 10:41 PM

There is a Spanish saying: what starts wrong, ends well.
I have returned the piece to the guy ... no compensation for the ( little) damage and no bad feelings ... as he insisted in saying so.
What a relief ... i am a bit maniac with this kind of problems.
Thank you all for your support.
Fernando

A. G. Maisey · 13th February 2008, 10:47 PM

Sometimes we win, Fernando, sometimes we win.

12th February 2008, 08:34 PM	#1
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,642	Kris for coments ... please Inevitable fatalities I started by thinking i could do a good business over this piece, as its owner wanted to get rid of it, because his wife didn't like the "monsters" on the hilt and scabbard I took it home to picture it and post it here, to check whether this was a tourist item or rather an interesting example, collecting wise. But when i got home, i dropped it on the stairs and broke some bits of the scabbard. So it appears that i really have to buy this kris from the guy, no matter for what price, as i don't have the guts to return it. Would you Gentlemen give me some input on this specimen ? This is the first one i wil have and i know nothing about these pieces. I hope it is some old, something i favour the most. All i can guess is that, apart from some broken parts on the blade base, its collar ( mendak ? ) is missing, but i suppose these parts can be bought, right ? Sorry for the long story. Thanks a lot. Fernando Attached Images

12th February 2008, 08:42 PM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,702	We often hear of "tourist keris", but we do not often see them. This one is the real deal. A genuine Balinese Tourist Keris. The dress is probably from around the 1970's, the blade is old, but has lost its gonjo.Dress quality is remarkably poor for this type of keris, sometimes the carving on these scabbards and handles can be excellent, which makes them worth keeping, but sadly, this one is not.

12th February 2008, 10:28 PM	#3
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,026	I don't know Alan, i see this particular type of Bali "tourist" dress quite often on ePray. I agree that the carving is not good, but frankly i have seen much worse for this type. I am also a bit confused that you would refer to this as a "genuine Balinese Tourist Keris". Obviously this is so for the dress, but the blade isn't what i would think to be deemed "tourist" quality, though it is, as noted, unfortunately missing it's gonjo. I have often seen in this style dress the blades cut from blanks that then have a fake pamor painted on them. That would seem to me to be the ultimate in genuine "tourist" variety. Fernando, i am sorry that you feel that you must now buy this keris. If the gonjo was intact and the price was right you could consider re-dressing this keris. As is i would probably pass on it if i could.

12th February 2008, 11:03 PM	#4
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,642	Thank you Alan, for your sincerity. Thank you David, for your support. I will try and get rid of the thing; even if have to pay it or partly pay it, i will push it back to the guy. Comparing to the quality i now know it is of, the broken little parts, which i have glued back, will not diminish its intrinsic value. All the best Fernando

12th February 2008, 11:13 PM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,702	Yeah David, there are a lot of them around, and they were put together specifically for tourists, which makes them a genuine tourist item. The early ones used genuine old blades, which were sometimes pretty fair. I think it might have been during the 1980's that the pieces of acid-etched flat-iron started to appear, I don't seem to remember that stuff from the 1960's and 1970's. The etched flat-iron, the old genuine blades, the current era better quality blades, are only something to hang the carving on, which is what the tourists buy--- all they really want is a holiday memento to hang on the wall, and 99.9% of these people couldn't tell the difference between a real blade and etched flat-iron anyway. You're right of course, there are examples of this type that are infinitely worse than this one, but there are a few that are of superior quality workmanship. This one is just somewhere in the middle, which in my opinion makes it pretty poor. If you're committed to it Fernando, you could make a gonjo for it, and try to do something about reasonable dress, but depending on how much you need to pay for this keris, that might not be economically viable, as it could finish up costing more than its worth.

13th February 2008, 12:40 AM	#6
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,642	Now that i am disenchanted, i don't feel i will keep it in any condition. Besides, it doesn't make much sense to try and save this piece, being the first one i would owe and having no specific reason to do it. Besides, there are no specialists over here and its price it not so famous. I notice there is a nice ( authentic ) kris at the swap forum which, given the dollar low ratio, costs even less than this funny thing. No doubt it was a bad move from my side. Fernando

13th February 2008, 02:42 AM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,702	Don't let it worry you Fernando---you should see some of the mistakes I made when I was learning. I reckon I could pay for three Phd.'s with what I blew on errors in my early days. Bad buys are just part of the learning experience---but if nobody ever tells us we've made a mistake, we never learn. The approach of paying the owner compensation for any damage you might have done could well be your wisest move, if you are permitted to do that.

13th February 2008, 10:41 PM	#8
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,642	There is a Spanish saying: what starts wrong, ends well. I have returned the piece to the guy ... no compensation for the ( little) damage and no bad feelings ... as he insisted in saying so. What a relief ... i am a bit maniac with this kind of problems. Thank you all for your support. Fernando

13th February 2008, 10:47 PM	#9
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,702	Sometimes we win, Fernando, sometimes we win.