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Old 23rd January 2007, 05:28 PM   #1
Flavio
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Smile Tulwar with wootz blade!!

Hi all, finally i can show you my first wootz blade!!! I have etched just a little the blade and now you can just see the wootz, but i will etch a little more (it's more complicated to make evident wootz, more than on moro blades to show the laminations!!! any suggestions are welcome, i have used vinegar with semi-hot water). The handle is nice with black enamel, but it's rusty and i don't know what i have to do: i have to gently pass on the zones whitout enamel a fine iron wool or i have to leave the handle as it is? More the blade shows some letters - marks: can someone tell me what they mean? the blade shows also a part where two pieces of iron wootz were forged togheter (i think) and if i'm correct i have already read that sometimes this happens. Any ideas one the age? Unfortunatly the scabbard is in very poor conditions!!!! Thank you very much for the help!!
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Last edited by Flavio : 23rd January 2007 at 06:13 PM.
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Old 23rd January 2007, 05:58 PM   #2
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Hi Flavio
Nice sword! Search forum there is much information on bringing out patterns, personally I use different chemical solution based on acids, just lately I found CuSO4 as a very nice way to work with some damascus blades....
To bring out pattern and see nice blade is a matter what you choose, polish it or leave with "patina" I prefer first option and always try to bring old glory of my blades but some collectors dislike it
Best
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Old 23rd January 2007, 06:11 PM   #3
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Thank you Husar! Sorry for my ignorance but what's CuSO4?
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Old 23rd January 2007, 06:26 PM   #4
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Flavio

You can use ferric chloride solution 1 part ferric chloride to 3 parts distilled water. Apply with a brush or clean cotton cloth to a small area of the blade to see if the wootz pattern emerges. You can rinse the blade with warm water. Be careful this stuff stains so wear a latex glove for protection.

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Old 23rd January 2007, 06:57 PM   #5
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Hi Lew, thank you, i will try, but where i can find ferric chloride?
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Old 23rd January 2007, 07:29 PM   #6
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Ah ok, ok i have found it!!
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Old 23rd January 2007, 07:33 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flavio
Thank you Husar! Sorry for my ignorance but what's CuSO4?

It is copper sulfate
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Old 23rd January 2007, 07:35 PM   #8
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Thank you Husar
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Old 24th January 2007, 07:42 PM   #9
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Any idea about the signs-letters on the blade? and about age? thanks
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Old 24th January 2007, 08:09 PM   #10
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Flavio,
Here are some similar marks on a fine grained wootz tulwar .
As for meaning or language ....
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Old 25th January 2007, 03:02 PM   #11
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Hi Rick,

Nice blade you have. The dot marks are those used by the Bikaner armoury, and the other letter are sometimes also on weapons from this armoury – I recognise at least two of the letters. I don’t know the meaning yet, but that is one of the things I study on and off – so maybe one day! I hope it was not you who sharpened the blade with a file.

Hi Flavio,

Congratulation with your tulwar. It is true that photographing a watered blade can be very difficult, either there is too little light to avoid reflections, or it is not sharp. It is however a good thing with the cameras of to day, you can see the picture within seconds, and not like in the old days where you had to wait a week before you got your blurred pictures back from development. You can avoid some of the reflections if you give the blade a thin layer of wax.

Flavio, is it black lacquer one can see on the hilt around the decoration?

Rick,

Here is one of mine, before and after – it took hours, many hours, as I did it by hand.
The first sign could be a letter, I don’t know, but the next three are the numbers ‘122’ and the last ‘S’ is unknown to me.
The numbers on yours seem to be, the first sign unknown, then 5, maybe 7 and 2.
Flavio, is it black lacquer one can see on the hilt around the decoration?
Here is one of mine, before and after – it took hours, many hours, as I did it by hand.
The first sign could be a letter, I don’t know, but the next three are the numbers ‘122’ and the last ‘S’ is unknown to me.
The numbers on yours seem to be, the first sign unknown, then 5, maybe 7 and 2.
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Old 25th January 2007, 04:07 PM   #12
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Thank you both, Rick and Jens Jens, yes is black lacquer.

I have found this on the mr. Yarom's site:

"Scarf welding was done by welding two ingots of steel in or around the upper third part of the blade, in order to provide the blade with both strength and flexibility. It was a common technique since many centuries and found on both Indian and European quality swords. Here the welding point is clearly seen in the close ups as a darker semicircle."

I think that this could be the case also on my blade.

Last edited by Flavio : 25th January 2007 at 05:13 PM.
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Old 25th January 2007, 05:20 PM   #13
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Hi Jens,
No, I would never ever take a file to an old wootz blade .
I do wonder if this blade was once sharpened on a grindstone in its past .

Rick
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Old 25th January 2007, 09:51 PM   #14
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Hi Flavio,
Show me where on the blade you think there is 'sarf welding'.
I think you have gotten a very nice sword, and you have every reason to be proud of it, but tell me, are there any traces of silver or gold around the floral decorations?
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Old 26th January 2007, 04:46 PM   #15
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Hi Jens, i'm proud just because it's my first wootz blade i don't think absolutely that it's an extraordinary piece (infact the handle is in quite poor conditions as the scabbard) and no the handle doesn't shows neither silver nor gold decorations . On the pictures you may see the semi-circular sign that i think could be the sign of 'sarf welding': this sign is present in both faces of blade even if at a difference distance ( 2-3 cm) from the handle (and on a face the concavity is toward the point and on the other face is toward the handle).
Sorry if i'm boasting myself too much with this sword, but it wasn't my intention, just i like to know what do you think because your knowledge is too much great than mine
Thank you
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Old 26th January 2007, 09:37 PM   #16
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Hi Flavio,

The way I see it is, that the first scarf welding, is right, but the second is a repair, please let someone with more knowledge than I have, tell us what it is.

You see, it is seldom to see an Indian hilt with lacquer, that is why I asked.

I am glad on your behalf


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Old 26th January 2007, 10:23 PM   #17
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Very nice sword you've got their Flavio, old, used, battle tested, and beautiful. Ive always wanted a sword which saw alot of use, and was of excellent quality, like this one.

Congratulations
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Old 27th January 2007, 12:02 PM   #18
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Thank you Jens and S.Al-Anizi
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Old 3rd February 2007, 09:24 AM   #19
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Finally i was able to clean the handle (very rust!!!) and the blade. Here are some pics
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Old 3rd February 2007, 01:34 PM   #20
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Hi Flavio,

It does take a lot of work to clean hilts and blades when they are very rusty – but just have a look at it, it was worth every minute of work.
I asked you if the black on the hilt was lacquer, and you said yes, but do you think it could be enamel?

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Old 3rd February 2007, 01:56 PM   #21
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Congatulations Flavio!!

Whoever would have known such beauty was hiding under all that rust!!

Just Beautiful!!
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Old 3rd February 2007, 03:40 PM   #22
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Thank you Pukka and Jens
Jens to be honest I don't know if it's enamel, but if not what kind of other material may be? What I can tell you is that is very hard and strong also with a brush with iron bristles, that I have used to remove rust, the black part are still in loco. Thanks again
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Old 3rd February 2007, 04:10 PM   #23
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Flavio,

I know that old rust can be hard to remove, but using an iron brush, is something I would never have done. However as it has not been scratched by the ‘violent’ treatment, I think it is more likely that it is enamel than lacquer, as I don’t think lacquer would stand such a treatment. Enamel is very hard, but you can scratch it, or even make it break, as it, in a way is like coloured glass, so you are lucky not to have lost any of it, but please be careful in the future. If it is not lacquer or enamel, then I don’t know what it is. If you get a weapon with silver or gold koftgari or inlay, you will have to be very careful, as there can be rust under the inlay, and this can/will easily make the decoration fall off if it is treated too roughly.

Jens
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Old 3rd February 2007, 04:18 PM   #24
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wrong post
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Old 3rd February 2007, 04:19 PM   #25
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Jens, yes next time I will be more careful, but to be honest and in my defence I can assure you that I have tested in a little portion the iron brush and also the paper sand to see what may have been happened!!! Than, when I saw that the result was good I have cleaned all the handle. More the iron brush has a not so hard bristles. Thank you very much
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