Unmarked P1796 L.C. Troopers Sabre

Jim McDougall · 23rd October 2020, 10:07 PM

Excellent illustration Fernando! Interesting to see one of these in gold metal!

To the subject of the quantities, tenure and other uses of the M1796 sabers, in this case, the blades.

In india, there were mountain artillery units in c. 1840 which handled the 'screw guns' and light cannon. Apparently they issued the gunners a brass hilted short sword, but its description is unclear. These were disbanded but begun again 1851 and 1853 in Hazara and Peshawar , and active in the Northwest Frontier.

It is noted in Robson (1985) that a sword resembling the coast guard 'cutlasses' with cast iron ribbed grip and brass hilt, in fact many were possibly from stocks of these coast guard swords.

This brass hilt sword with ribbed grip seems to be mounted with a M1796 blade, but does not correspond to the swords issued to these mountain units but it seems likely this might be one.

kronckew · 11th January 2021, 04:49 PM

Stumbled across this thread. I have a UK 'Coast Guard' version, have read that when the Coastal riders amalgamated with the various related services to form the UK's 'Coast Guard' in 1822 The brass stirrup guard with it's serrated grip was issued until around 1856/7 when they switched to a more standard pattern cutlass. They gathered up the now surplus swords and issued them to the Mountain troops, and some to the medical corps. The Indian troopers liked them & kept them in service for ages. When presented with the estoc cavalry sword in the 1st decade of the 120c, they hated it and instead came up with a slightly better 1796 blade with a 1821 style 3-bat guard which they used until they had their arms twisted to grudgingly accept the 1905/8 thruster, useless in a melee, that they hated.

UK 'Coast Guard Cutlass':

bvieira · 12th January 2021, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Excellent illustration Fernando! Interesting to see one of these in gold metal!

To the subject of the quantities, tenure and other uses of the M1796 sabers, in this case, the blades.

In india, there were mountain artillery units in c. 1840 which handled the 'screw guns' and light cannon. Apparently they issued the gunners a brass hilted short sword, but its description is unclear. These were disbanded but begun again 1851 and 1853 in Hazara and Peshawar , and active in the Northwest Frontier.

It is noted in Robson (1985) that a sword resembling the coast guard 'cutlasses' with cast iron ribbed grip and brass hilt, in fact many were possibly from stocks of these coast guard swords.

This brass hilt sword with ribbed grip seems to be mounted with a M1796 blade, but does not correspond to the swords issued to these mountain units but it seems likely this might be one.

I have one of these.

kronckew · 12th January 2021, 06:25 PM

...and I have one of these: Indian 1910 IWM pattern.

scinde · 24th January 2021, 06:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronckew

...and I have one of these: Indian 1910 IWM pattern.

Hi,

Does your sword have any markings? Do you have a photo that shows the back-piece and pommel?

kronckew · 24th January 2021, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scinde

Hi,

Does your sword have any markings? Do you have a photo that shows the back-piece and pommel?

Yup, it's rather badly pitted, crusted and blackened with rust, no markings I can see, tho there may be some under the crust. The blade is also pretty much black but unmarked, and in a lot better condition, only a few small shallow pits, the black rust is mostly surface only. Sharp as heck too. Sadly, no scabbard.

Below it is a similar shot of my British 1821 pipe-back sabre for comparison. The guard and blade were plated at some point, and it's flaking off, again guard's unplated areas are black, but not pitted. The blade, not shown, also plated has dark, but no red rust, blobs all over it where the plating has come off. I've scrubbed off the loose bits, and it looks blotchy. Scabbard for it was painted silver by a previous owner over a fairly uniform rough, presumeably rusted, but intact (no holes) surface

.

fernando · 24th January 2021, 05:47 PM

I like the contrast with the pristine sword knot

.

kronckew · 24th January 2021, 06:13 PM

The original 19c yellow and navy blue nylon paracord sword knot (portapee), for display and combat purposes only.

There is a blue ranger bead slider knot for tightening it on the wrist just above where the knot is dropped thru the guard which was slid further up for the earlier photo.

I did unwrap it and pushed it aside for the photo above, but I did leave it on in the slot in the knuckle guard to better contrast the pommel bit.

23rd October 2020, 10:07 PM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,410	Excellent illustration Fernando! Interesting to see one of these in gold metal! To the subject of the quantities, tenure and other uses of the M1796 sabers, in this case, the blades. In india, there were mountain artillery units in c. 1840 which handled the 'screw guns' and light cannon. Apparently they issued the gunners a brass hilted short sword, but its description is unclear. These were disbanded but begun again 1851 and 1853 in Hazara and Peshawar , and active in the Northwest Frontier. It is noted in Robson (1985) that a sword resembling the coast guard 'cutlasses' with cast iron ribbed grip and brass hilt, in fact many were possibly from stocks of these coast guard swords. This brass hilt sword with ribbed grip seems to be mounted with a M1796 blade, but does not correspond to the swords issued to these mountain units but it seems likely this might be one. Attached Images

11th January 2021, 04:49 PM	#2
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,233	Stumbled across this thread. I have a UK 'Coast Guard' version, have read that when the Coastal riders amalgamated with the various related services to form the UK's 'Coast Guard' in 1822 The brass stirrup guard with it's serrated grip was issued until around 1856/7 when they switched to a more standard pattern cutlass. They gathered up the now surplus swords and issued them to the Mountain troops, and some to the medical corps. The Indian troopers liked them & kept them in service for ages. When presented with the estoc cavalry sword in the 1st decade of the 120c, they hated it and instead came up with a slightly better 1796 blade with a 1821 style 3-bat guard which they used until they had their arms twisted to grudgingly accept the 1905/8 thruster, useless in a melee, that they hated. UK 'Coast Guard Cutlass': Attached Images

12th January 2021, 06:25 PM	#4
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,233	...and I have one of these: Indian 1910 IWM pattern. Attached Images Last edited by kronckew; 12th January 2021 at 06:46 PM.

24th January 2021, 06:13 PM	#8
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,233	The original 19c yellow and navy blue nylon paracord sword knot (portapee), for display and combat purposes only. There is a blue ranger bead slider knot for tightening it on the wrist just above where the knot is dropped thru the guard which was slid further up for the earlier photo. I did unwrap it and pushed it aside for the photo above, but I did leave it on in the slot in the knuckle guard to better contrast the pommel bit. Attached Images Last edited by kronckew; 24th January 2021 at 06:28 PM.

24th January 2021, 05:47 PM	#7
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	I like the contrast with the pristine sword knot .