Just purchased the attached old flintlock conversion

Kmaddock · 14th June 2021, 02:19 PM

Hi All
Been a quiet few months purchasing and just changed jobs so all that entails has taken its toll on the hobby.

Bought this over the weekend, will not pick up till end of week but what do you think it might be
looks to me like an old flintlock percussion (auction house pictures with paint on top of it ), bit of work done on it as in the philips screw head but I think it might have some potential.

African trade gun I think but open to suggestions, i assume leather strap and feathers are a more recent addition.

Regards,

Ken

David R · 14th June 2021, 08:56 PM

I would look East, rather than into Africa.

kahnjar1 · 14th June 2021, 09:10 PM

Hi Ken,
Interesting old piece. A clue to origin could be the type of bird the feathers came from. If you have a knowledgeable ornotholigist nearby he could be well worth a visit.
Stu

Kmaddock · 16th June 2021, 09:26 AM

Thank you both for comments
I will have it in a week or so depending on courier.
I have no Bird experts in my circle so I don't think that is going to help guestimate origin, I was wondering with the stud work might it be Native America? Or David do you have an Eastern country/region in mind
I will post more images on receipt

REgards
Ken

kahnjar1 · 16th June 2021, 09:32 AM

Hi Ken,
The leather reminds me more of Africa somewhere rather than European East. Stud work is quite common on North African guns and it would make sense to have some way of carrying over the shoulder. Perhaps more detail of those larger plates on the stock might help when you receive the piece.
Stu

David R · 16th June 2021, 02:04 PM

African trade guns are generally made in Europe, and so have pretty standard European stocks.

This is closer to Turkish-Iranian-Afghan styles. One giveaway is the ramrod housed in the wood of the stock, rather than in an exterior slot with tubes.

Kubur · 16th June 2021, 05:08 PM

Ok I will try this one
I think the leather strap and the feathers are just recent additions.
Personally I will bin them.
Your butt (your rifle) looks like a boyliya. I will say Ottoman gun from the Balkans, exported and refurbished in North Africa.

David R · 16th June 2021, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kubur

Ok I will try this one
I think the leather strap and the feathers are just recent additions.
Personally I will bin them.
Your butt (your rifle) looks like a boyliya. I will say Ottoman gun from the Balkans, exported and refurbished in North Africa.

Agreed. Probably a fairly late one but it fits with what we see here.

rickystl · 18th June 2021, 08:42 PM

Hi Ken

Interesting gun. This is a tough one to I.D. Hmmm.

It appears to have been assembled utilizing a surplus musket barrel and lock in the most economical manner possible. It's obvious the lock was originally flintlock and converted to percussion using a simple drum and nipple method.
But I think the lock was already in conversion state before this gun was assembled. Possible the barrel also. It does appear to be a good example of an amateur gunsmith's work.
Some additional photos would be good after you receive it. Thanks for posting.

Rick

14th June 2021, 02:19 PM	#1
Kmaddock Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Ireland Posts: 532	Just purchased the attached old flintlock conversion Hi All Been a quiet few months purchasing and just changed jobs so all that entails has taken its toll on the hobby. Bought this over the weekend, will not pick up till end of week but what do you think it might be looks to me like an old flintlock percussion (auction house pictures with paint on top of it ), bit of work done on it as in the philips screw head but I think it might have some potential. African trade gun I think but open to suggestions, i assume leather strap and feathers are a more recent addition. Regards, Ken Attached Images

14th June 2021, 09:10 PM	#3
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,728	Hi Ken, Interesting old piece. A clue to origin could be the type of bird the feathers came from. If you have a knowledgeable ornotholigist nearby he could be well worth a visit. Stu Last edited by kahnjar1; 14th June 2021 at 10:35 PM.

16th June 2021, 02:04 PM	#6
David R Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,051	African trade guns are generally made in Europe, and so have pretty standard European stocks. This is closer to Turkish-Iranian-Afghan styles. One giveaway is the ramrod housed in the wood of the stock, rather than in an exterior slot with tubes. Attached Images

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14th June 2021, 08:56 PM	#2
David R Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,051	I would look East, rather than into Africa.

16th June 2021, 09:26 AM	#4
Kmaddock Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Ireland Posts: 532	Thank you both for comments I will have it in a week or so depending on courier. I have no Bird experts in my circle so I don't think that is going to help guestimate origin, I was wondering with the stud work might it be Native America? Or David do you have an Eastern country/region in mind I will post more images on receipt REgards Ken

16th June 2021, 09:32 AM	#5
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,728	Hi Ken, The leather reminds me more of Africa somewhere rather than European East. Stud work is quite common on North African guns and it would make sense to have some way of carrying over the shoulder. Perhaps more detail of those larger plates on the stock might help when you receive the piece. Stu

16th June 2021, 05:08 PM	#7
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	Ok I will try this one I think the leather strap and the feathers are just recent additions. Personally I will bin them. Your butt (your rifle) looks like a boyliya. I will say Ottoman gun from the Balkans, exported and refurbished in North Africa.

18th June 2021, 08:42 PM	#9
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,621	Hi Ken Interesting gun. This is a tough one to I.D. Hmmm. It appears to have been assembled utilizing a surplus musket barrel and lock in the most economical manner possible. It's obvious the lock was originally flintlock and converted to percussion using a simple drum and nipple method. But I think the lock was already in conversion state before this gun was assembled. Possible the barrel also. It does appear to be a good example of an amateur gunsmith's work. Some additional photos would be good after you receive it. Thanks for posting. Rick