British or American Dirk

Marcus · 15th February 2015, 04:41 AM

Anyone care to hazard an opinion whether this is British or American and what date?

ChrisPer · 16th February 2015, 11:17 AM

I claim no special expertise but that is constructed very similarly to a Sykes-Fairbairn knife, of which most of the makers I have seen were from Sheffield.

Through tang with possibly threaded nut at the pommel, ground then hammered over. Diamond section blade, straight butted to a simple and thin cross guard. The guard appears to be cast brass for decoration, not chased or engraved; whereas the S-F had an oval stamped sheet-metal guard. The handle is turned bone, and not pretty as it could have been pure white but has been left with natural colour and texture; its shape is straight taper not bellied but the cast Mazak metal handle of the S-F also had turned ribs (rather than spiral or longitudinal).

The etching is a nice feature but the object is plainly a product of fair to middling quality by industrial scale (blade and guard) but ordinary skill in design and manufacture (hand-turned bone handle), my first guess was Sheffield anywhere 1840-1914, for a wild guess.

Tableware from there/then was better finished and well-dressed handles of pure white or evenly coloured bone were the norm for better quality. To my untutored eye the aesthetic is not British or American but Spanish or South American.

M ELEY · 16th February 2015, 03:27 PM

If I had to place it, I'd say American, ca. 1800-20 period.

Straight to the point, without question, it's a naval dirk, not a bowie, bootk knife, gambler's dirk, gaucho knife, etc, etc. As such, it wouldn't be Mexican, although there were many Spanish colonial pieces and later Mexican pieces with similar construction. Mexico didn't use naval dirks to my knowledge. American naval dirks followed their British contemporaries, some with equal flare, while others were of a more primitive construction. The grip is either ivory or more probably bone. As it is of a 'dainty' size, it would have been for dress only, not a fighting piece. Midshipmen and up carried these as a sign of rank and family honor. I was going to refer you to Peter Tuite's excellent online article on British naval swords/dirks, but that PDF article no longer has pictures/plates of similar items.

Pity...
Mark

Marcus · 16th February 2015, 03:36 PM

Mark,
Thanks for your reply. It corresponds to my thoughts on the item almost exactly.
Marcus

fernando · 16th February 2015, 04:20 PM

And what is the blade length, by the way ?

Richard G · 16th February 2015, 09:58 PM

Something odd about the hammered nut on the pommel. A Sheffield, or any British, manufacturer would never have got away with such crude fixing.
Regards
Richard

Marcus · 16th February 2015, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

And what is the blade length, by the way ?

The blade is 9 inches, the handle only 3.

The pommel nut was one reason I was betting American over English.

15th February 2015, 04:41 AM	#1
Marcus Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 420	British or American Dirk Anyone care to hazard an opinion whether this is British or American and what date? Attached Images

16th February 2015, 11:17 AM	#2
ChrisPer Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 35	I claim no special expertise but that is constructed very similarly to a Sykes-Fairbairn knife, of which most of the makers I have seen were from Sheffield. Through tang with possibly threaded nut at the pommel, ground then hammered over. Diamond section blade, straight butted to a simple and thin cross guard. The guard appears to be cast brass for decoration, not chased or engraved; whereas the S-F had an oval stamped sheet-metal guard. The handle is turned bone, and not pretty as it could have been pure white but has been left with natural colour and texture; its shape is straight taper not bellied but the cast Mazak metal handle of the S-F also had turned ribs (rather than spiral or longitudinal). The etching is a nice feature but the object is plainly a product of fair to middling quality by industrial scale (blade and guard) but ordinary skill in design and manufacture (hand-turned bone handle), my first guess was Sheffield anywhere 1840-1914, for a wild guess. Tableware from there/then was better finished and well-dressed handles of pure white or evenly coloured bone were the norm for better quality. To my untutored eye the aesthetic is not British or American but Spanish or South American. Last edited by ChrisPer; 16th February 2015 at 11:31 AM.

16th February 2015, 03:36 PM	#4
Marcus Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 420	Midshipman Mark, Thanks for your reply. It corresponds to my thoughts on the item almost exactly. Marcus

16th February 2015, 03:27 PM	#3
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,066	If I had to place it, I'd say American, ca. 1800-20 period. Straight to the point, without question, it's a naval dirk, not a bowie, bootk knife, gambler's dirk, gaucho knife, etc, etc. As such, it wouldn't be Mexican, although there were many Spanish colonial pieces and later Mexican pieces with similar construction. Mexico didn't use naval dirks to my knowledge. American naval dirks followed their British contemporaries, some with equal flare, while others were of a more primitive construction. The grip is either ivory or more probably bone. As it is of a 'dainty' size, it would have been for dress only, not a fighting piece. Midshipmen and up carried these as a sign of rank and family honor. I was going to refer you to Peter Tuite's excellent online article on British naval swords/dirks, but that PDF article no longer has pictures/plates of similar items. Pity... Mark

16th February 2015, 04:20 PM	#5
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,639	And what is the blade length, by the way ?

16th February 2015, 09:58 PM	#6
Richard G Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 402	Something odd about the hammered nut on the pommel. A Sheffield, or any British, manufacturer would never have got away with such crude fixing. Regards Richard