Turkish Pala. Help with inscriptions.

ALEX · 7th January 2016, 12:30 PM

Arsen, you are most welcome! I am glad you posted this sword and got the facts about it. This is part of collecting, and I think safe to say every one of us made some miscalculations at some point, especially when going by only online images.
here are a few more swords of similar nature, not even most from just the past several weeks alone. one even has the reference of authentic sword from Tirri book attached, as to stress the importance of everything that remotely resembles it, and the description states "likely 1700s to 1800s period, of course

Kubur · 7th January 2016, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALEX

Arsen, you are most welcome! I am glad you posted this sword and got the facts about it. This is part of collecting, and I think safe to say every one of us made some miscalculations at some point, especially when going by only online images.
here are a few more swords of similar nature, not even most from just the past several weeks alone. one even has the reference of authentic sword from Tirri book attached, as to stress the importance of everything that remotely resembles it, and the description states "likely 1700s to 1800s period, of course

Hi Alex,

The second and fourth ones look good to me...
The last one is just a good old Turkish touristic sword...

Best,
Kubur

ALEX · 7th January 2016, 01:13 PM

see the second and third, they have identical cartouches

the blades are completely new, as the handles and crosses... everything is new. they are acid aged just as the subject kilij. As per Ariel's earlier comment, I'll not give up more hints to those who make them.
The last one also shows some age, but is it any old? see the below image that Harry recently posted for sale (Harry, hope you do not mind I am referencing your item here). They are similar, but one is aged, no? i mean it can be a few years old, could be 5 or 10, but 1800...?

Kubur · 7th January 2016, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALEX

look at second and third, they have identical cartouches, same newly-made template

the handles are completely new, so are the blades. they are acid aged just as the subject kilij. The last one also shows some age, but i doubt it is any old. see the below image that Harry recently posted for sale, same thing but aged, no? i mean it can be a few years old, could be 5 or 10, but 1800...?

sorry the picture changed
i talked about the first one
for the last one, yes, like Harry's Turkish daggers, i would say around 1900-1920.
Touristic, but old... Nevertheless they continue to do these kind of daggers up to now if i'm not mistaken...
By the way a lot of pistols fall in this category too...

ALEX · 7th January 2016, 01:32 PM

Kubur, I see. The first one is tough as the cartouche is of different quality than others, visually it looks right, but there are giveaways I'd not go about here. All I can tell is I saw old wootz swords being sold without cartouches, and then some time later mysteriously reappeared with similar, even better quality cartouches. but this one is easier as it has new blade)
As for wooden sword, you could be right. it's just me being skeptical about it)

estcrh · 8th January 2016, 06:01 AM

While we are on the subject....very recently I have seen a rash of swords/daggers etc that just look funny, either they have no wear but appear to be nicely made, or they have a lot of gold that looks really new while the sword/dagger looks old but not of the quality to be layered in gold etc etc. Some of the sales prices have been quite high.

How about this, bone grip, lots of new looking gold, the sellers description never mentions age.

Quote:

Super Rare Beautiful Gold Inlaid islamic Indo Persian Shamshir Dagger, you are looking at a Super Rare Beautiful Gold inlaid Indo Persian islamic Shamshir dagger, Wootz blade engraved with gold koftgari islamic calligraphy, handle bone with with gold inlay, Overall length 13"

ALEX · 8th January 2016, 09:55 AM

Estcrh, good observation and comments. Your feelings are well merited. most of the items coming from the same source as this one are enhanced, modified or at least questionable. The seller does not mention age. the notion of "most amazing and rare dagger on earth" is subjective and individual, some like items that just "look" amazing, as the swords above, but in terms of ethnographic or historic significance they are meaningless.

7th January 2016, 12:30 PM	#1
ALEX Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 936	Arsen, you are most welcome! I am glad you posted this sword and got the facts about it. This is part of collecting, and I think safe to say every one of us made some miscalculations at some point, especially when going by only online images. here are a few more swords of similar nature, not even most from just the past several weeks alone. one even has the reference of authentic sword from Tirri book attached, as to stress the importance of everything that remotely resembles it, and the description states "likely 1700s to 1800s period, of course Attached Images

7th January 2016, 01:13 PM	#3
ALEX Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 936	see the second and third, they have identical cartouches the blades are completely new, as the handles and crosses... everything is new. they are acid aged just as the subject kilij. As per Ariel's earlier comment, I'll not give up more hints to those who make them. The last one also shows some age, but is it any old? see the below image that Harry recently posted for sale (Harry, hope you do not mind I am referencing your item here). They are similar, but one is aged, no? i mean it can be a few years old, could be 5 or 10, but 1800...? Attached Images Last edited by ALEX; 7th January 2016 at 01:23 PM.

7th January 2016, 01:32 PM	#5
ALEX Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 936	Kubur, I see. The first one is tough as the cartouche is of different quality than others, visually it looks right, but there are giveaways I'd not go about here. All I can tell is I saw old wootz swords being sold without cartouches, and then some time later mysteriously reappeared with similar, even better quality cartouches. but this one is easier as it has new blade) As for wooden sword, you could be right. it's just me being skeptical about it)

8th January 2016, 09:55 AM	#7
ALEX Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 936	Estcrh, good observation and comments. Your feelings are well merited. most of the items coming from the same source as this one are enhanced, modified or at least questionable. The seller does not mention age. the notion of "most amazing and rare dagger on earth" is subjective and individual, some like items that just "look" amazing, as the swords above, but in terms of ethnographic or historic significance they are meaningless.