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Old 17th December 2023, 02:27 PM   #1
sabertasche
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Thanks Fernando, does this speak to any particular country? Age wise, 1550?

Greg
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Old 17th December 2023, 04:50 PM   #2
fernando
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Let the more knowledged members give you an adequate answer, Greg. Italian, maybe ... i don't know .
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Old 19th December 2023, 10:52 AM   #3
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So surprising. No one pops in with some comments !
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Old 19th December 2023, 11:40 AM   #4
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I can add no knowledge to this thread but just to echo Fernando's comments that you have a beautiful acquisition there and a real stand out piece. One I am sure many of us would love to have in our collections,
Well done you
Regards
Ken
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Old 20th December 2023, 10:49 PM   #5
Jim McDougall
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The 'main gauche' thing is IMO a bit overplayed usually, these pretty much fell out if use, at least in the fencing aspect by the end of the 17th c. but daggers, presumably of this basic form did remain worn as secondary weapon. While fencing was typically not necessarily a duel to death, in many situations involving sword to sword combat such as brawls or melee in civilian setting (i.e. Italy as in Shakespearean dramas) the dagger became key when close quarters tussle rendered further use of sword/rapier impossible.

Though this example seems to have the presumed look of a misercorde, that particular weapon had not been in use for some time, these were of course allegedly for 'coup de grace' to mortally wounded knight. While this rather dramatic notion was popularized in the annals of chivalry, these were more for the same close quarters combat as they were intended to penetrate any open area in armor whether gaps or damage.

That the classic design might well have been carried into the theme of this interesting example seems likely, and the intriguing six point star in cartouche seems to have a symbolic character as in architectural motif, more research would be most interesting. The blade seems aligned with daggers of late 16th to 17th c. but I would defer more on that to experts.

Egerton Castle, "Schools and Masters of Fence" (1885) examples 8,10,14 , plate IV, shows three examples of this basic form as cross hilted daggers of Baron de Cosson, coll. 16th c. Italian seems likely, but of course hard to say as Italian influences strongly diffused into other arms centers.

Last edited by Jim McDougall; 20th December 2023 at 11:09 PM.
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Old 21st December 2023, 08:42 PM   #6
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As the readership on this thread is resounding it seems, nearing 2000 views in 4 days! I thought I could at least try to stay active, so hit the books! to find more on the interesting device in the raised guard ring.

This appears to be a 'chrismon' monogram of Christ, which resembles an ancient pagan sun wheel. ..however is transposed letter I over a Greek X.
This rather explains the 'ecclesiastical' feel to the device, noting how many hilt themes and elements included religiously oriented basis.

Thanks for posting this Greg, always fun to have something to research, I didnt know much on these until I opened the books two days ago.
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Old 22nd December 2023, 01:17 PM   #7
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In my worthless opinion, i would not discard that this is potentially a left hand (main gauche) dagger, notwithstanding that its guard features have a somehow unusual design, both the (one only) direction curved quillons and specially the guard device, being not a ring but a solid disc. Judging by the fact that there aren't many like these out there, we may presume this was the whim of some wealthy client.
OTOH, whatever the signification of this finger guard design may be, i suspect such is not yet deciphered.
But then and again, my assumption is to be taken with lots of salt.


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Last edited by fernando; 22nd December 2023 at 02:17 PM. Reason: Spell
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